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Bucks DA: Marino Death 'Justifiable Homicide'

David Heckler found that "loss of tactical control" by police did not rise to level of criminal wrongdoing

 

Update, 5:38 p.m. July 30

Bucks County District Attorney David Heckler called the investigation into the death of Michael W. Marino "thorough and impartial" and defended claims that Marino was "society's victim in these events" by describing the victim as "drug-abusing, mentally ill and violent."

He said to prosecute Officer Seth Mumbauer would make him "a scapegoat for those who decided Marino could be free without supervision."

During a 3 p.m. press conference in his office in the Bucks County Courthouse, Heckler said Mumbauer shot Marino once in the chest.

Marino's hands were cuffed behind his back, Heckler said.

"Shortly before the shooting, a total of three officers had combined to subdue Marino. The shooting took place during a fight which began after one officer stepped away and Marino dropped to his back and began kicking the officers to the extent that one was put out of the fight entirely," Heckler said. "Officer Mumbauer was dazed, having been kicked in the jaw and groin."

He said the incident was witnessed by at least one disinterested civilian witness.

One witness to the incident at the convenience store where police were called the afternoon of June 9 was Bikers Against Child Abuse Montgomery County Chapter member Ron Gallagher and his wife Robyn.

Heckler had points to make to those who believe that Marino was society's victim in the events.

"Whatever mental illnesses Michael Marino suffered from - he, his doctors, those close to him and ultimately our society - decided that he should be free, on the street, with a car, unsupervised and able to purchase and use controlled substances as he saw fit," Heckler said.

"He elected not to take the prescribed medications which had helped him live within society's rules and he decided to consume illegal substances, some of which have been known to make people do many bizarre things, including act out violently," Heckler said.

Heckler referred to these substances as bath salts or synthetic cannabinoids, which, he said, affect the synapses in the brain much like marijuana. 

"He addressed himself in a variety of aggressive and anti-social ways toward people he didn't know and who had not provoked him in any way," Heckler said. "When confronted by police, as was inevitable given his conduct and as had occurred before in his life, he chose to do battle even after he had been restrained, instead of submitting to lawful authority."

"The police did not create this situation - he did," Heckler said.

Heckler said to prosecute Mumbauer would to make him a scapegoat for those who decided Marino could be free without supervision.

"It would be to make that officer a scapegoat for society's choice to cut corners and hope for the best where the mentally ill are concerned, and for society's decision that when things don't go well with the mentally ill, we'll let the criminal justice system handle the mess that follows," he said. 

He said prosecuting Mumbauer would make him a scapegoat for the tactical misjudgements of others "who had the responsibility for protecting the public from this drug-abusing, mentally ill and violent subject."

"This is truly a case where the devil is in the details," he said. "It is for this reason that the county detectives conducted a thorough and independent investigation and why I have taken the step of providing an unusually detailed recounting of the findings of that investigation."

The findings are public documents and have been shared with counsel for the Marino family - Gerald McHugh of Raynes McCarty Law Firm in Philadelphia.

A message from Lansdale Patch was left with McHugh seeking comment on any civil litigation against Perkasie Police.

According to Matt Coughlin at PhillyBurbs.com, the Marino family did issue a statement through McHugh.

The undisputed fact remains that an unarmed young man, in the throes of mental illness, was shot with his hands cuffed behind his back, with three police officers on the scene.

We intend to continue pursuit of all remedies the law provides, with the goal of securing justice for the death of our son, and reforming the procedures of the Perkasie police to prevent such senseless tragedies in the future.

Perkasie Police Chief Joseph Gura also received a copy of the findings.

An autopsy on Marino revealed the following found in his bodily fluids:

  • Amphetamine
  • Caffeine
  • Synthetic cannabinoids at detectable levels
  • THC
  • Nicotine and metabolites

Earlier Story

Bucks County District Attorney David Heckler has declined to charge Perkasie Police Officer Seth Mumbauer in the June 9 death of Michael Marino, the Quakertown-area man who was shot and killed during an altercation with police near a vacant Sellersville industrial property in which he had allegedly been squatting.

After a seven-week investigation, Heckler released a 10-page report and several photographs gathering all details by Bucks County detectives, which supported his decision to not criminally charge Mumbauer. 

Marino, 26, died after being shot once in the chest by Officer Seth Mumbauer following what Mumbauer described to investigators as a physical struggle on "uneven terrain." 

Perkasie Police Officer Steven Graff and Sgt. James Rothrock, a trained hostage negotiator, initially found Marino with his back against the vacant sign factory building, facing the railroad tracks, according to the findings.

The ground falls significantly as one proceeds west toward the tracks and rises again when one reaches the ballast on which the ties for the track are laid.

Mumbauer arrived at the scene and gave this account:

I saw Sgt. Rothrock and Officer Graff were in dialogue with the subject near the building. Both Sgt. Rothrock and Officer Graff were standing in a 'valley.' The subject was sitting on a hill, above them, near the building. He was yelling obscenities at various times.

Rothrock reported Marino "would appear to have moments of clarity and then slip into a state of incomprehension." Marino also appeared "agitated and spoke gibberish which to the officers sounded vaguely like German."

Marino was asked what medications he took, and rattled off names that Rothrock recognized as anti-psychotics. Marino told Rothrock his meds did not help him.

Marino told officers he was kicked out and was having a bad day.

In his findings, it was revealed Marino resided with his sister, Amber Simione, at 2513 Emerald Lane, Quakertown. Simione was on vacation during the weekend of Marino's death and advised a neighbor that "Mike had not been taking his medication." She told the neighbor to call the police if Marino was acting strange.

Then, Marino told the officers he wasn't going to speak with anyone about his mental health and wasn't going anywhere. He then stood up in "an aggressive stance" and stated:

I feel like I'm God. No, I know that I'm God. If you don't know who I am, then you don't read the Bible.

Police said Marino had been handcuffed and was resisting their attempts to take him to Grand View Hospital for medical attention.

The officers began to take him into custody, Mumbauer with Marino's right arm and Graff with Marino's left arm and head. Marino became "resistant, flailing" and "tensing his arms and body."

Mumbauer describes the process of cuffing Marino:

I pulled my cuffs out and was trying to cuff the left arm. When the cuff clicked on the left arm, I then tried to get the right cuff on. This hung up, possibly on the subject's pants. When cuffs get caught up on cloth, there is no sound or feel of the cuff's ratchet. I did not hear the click. I did not double lock the cuffs because the subject was combative and because we were on uneven terrain

Graff told investigators that after Marino had been handcuffed by Mumbauer, he "began to flip out" while Graff was frisking him.

I patted down the subject's right front pocket and felt a large soft object which the subject stated was marijuana. I went to pat down the subject's left front pocket and began to feel multiple hard objects. As I was patting the left pocket, the subject began to flip out.

Graff said he "went to the ground" with Marino to physically subdue him and was "knocked backwards down [an] embankment and disoriented." Before Graff got up, he heard a gunshot.

I went to the ground with the subject trying to control his legs. AS I was attempting to control the subject's legs, I was knocked backwards down the embankment and disoriented. During this time frame, I heard a loud bang. When I looked up, I saw the subject lying on his back with a hole in his chest.

Mumbauer, who said he was kicked in the jaw, told investigators, "I knew we were losing this fight" and "I feared for our safety," explaining that he believed Marino may have broken loose of his handcuffs or been armed.

The kick to the head and the groin made me feel like I would go unconscious if kicked again. The force knocked me back and slightly down the hill. I knew he was within a few feet of me and could easily jump for me and try to get my gun. He could have gone to either side of me at that point but he didn't. Instead, the subject started to come directly at me by rocking his body to get up in one forward motion. The subject immediately lurched forward toward me. He planted his feet within a foot of my feet and I knew he could jump into me and knock me into the bottom of the valley.

I knew he had gotten the upper hand and was still able to fight. I feared for our safety. I believed that the subject may have thrown a cuff, or was armed. I believed that the might grab my gun. I took a step back and drew my duty weapon. As he rocked up and came at me, I fired a single shot into the chest of the subject. He immediately dropped back to the ground and stopped moving.

"I do not find that Officer Mumbauer's belief that he needed to draw and fire his weapon was unreasonable under the circumstances," Heckler wrote in his official statement of findings.

See DA Heckler's statement of findings in this article's PDF section.

Heckler was critical of "the loss of tactical control" that he said led to Mumbauer needing to use deadly force and suggested that Marino should have promptly been placed in the back of a police car in order to end the officers' "physical interaction" with him.

"Three physically fit police officers, two of them armed with Tasers and batons as well as sidearms and one trained specifically in dealing with mentally ill and drug abusing subjects like Marino, should have been able to avoid the loss of tactical control which led to Officer Mumbauer’s being in a position where the use of deadly force was necessary," wrote Heckler.

Additionally, Heckler found, Rothrock, who had walked some distance from the scene to ask Ron Gallagher to move back from the area, should have stayed with his two colleagues.

"[The witness] didn't present a threat," Heckler wrote. "He could have been verbally requested to remain at a safe distance."

Ultimately, Heckler said, it was outside his prosecutorial authority to determine whether proper police procedure had been followed.

"The matter which does lie within my responsibility is whether any crimes were committed in connection with Mr. Marino's death," Heckler wrote.

"Under the applicable law his act was therefore a justifiable homicide," Heckler concluded.

The Beginning

Heckler said Marino had broken into and set up housekeeping in a vacant sign factory at 201 West Clymer Avenue in Sellersville Borough, located next to railroad tracks, in the late afternoon of June 9.

Marino's silver Toyota was parked on the far side fo the factory, immediately next to a door that was forced open, according to Heckler in his findings. An armchair had been set up between the car and the building, and various cans of food and toiletries were found on shelves.

On June 9, at 4 p.m., Marino was reported in the vicinity of a convenience store at Clymer Avenue and East Park Avenue wearing a yellow poncho and carrying a large container of iced tea. In addition to the poncho, he was wearing long underwear pants, socks, gray-colored Croc-type shoes and a pair of light camouflage BDU-style shorts.

Marino made his way back down Clymer Avenue in a westerly direction toward the tracks, and periodically obstructed traffic, according to Heckler in his findings. 

Marino "brought himself to the attention of a number of people who were prompted by his actions to call police radio." Clymer Avenue residents told police Marino walked down the the middle of the street, shouting and acting in a menacing fashion.

Heckler wrote that Marino was striking signs and screaming epithets, as attributed to him by witnesses:

  • "You bitches are going to pay"
  • "I'm going to kill you; I'm going to kill everyone"
  • "I'm going to kill you motherfuckers"
  • "Fuck the world"
  • One witness said he growled at him in an intimidating way
  • Another witness saw a shirtless Marino as she crossed the tracks at Clymer Avenue, and was going to render aid: "He looked at me with a stare with his pupils black and enlarged and I thought to myself 'Holy shit ... I'm out of here.'"
  • One neighbor described Marino's face as red with his veins popping out, looking really frustrated

The Gallaghers were on their motorcycle and encountered Marino near the convenience store. Robyn Gallagher saw Marino across the street from the store as he proceeded down Clymer Avenue. She said he yelled at her and her husband that "We are all going to burn in hell."

Ron Gallagher called 911 and Graff and Rothrock responded to the scene.

What's your opinion on this issue? Join in on the comments below, minding our Terms of Use, or visit the post on our Facebook page.


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Related Topics: Bath Salts, David Heckler, Justifiable Homicide, Justified, Michael Marino, Sellersville, joseph gura, michael marino death, michael marino shooting, and perkasie police officer shooting

resident04

3:19 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Of course it's justifed. Since when can you kick a cop in the jaw? They're not going to risk their lives or the lives of the community because some unmedicated looney toon can sit still. Handcuffed or not... this guy was uncontrollable and a threat to anyone he came in contact with that day. Thank you Perkasie Police Department for making me feel safer :)

Here come the cop haters...

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Rich

3:50 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

They definately screwed up on this one. I don't hate the police, but the way they dealt with this situation doesn't make me feel safer. It does seem they were dealing with someone who was out of control and I'm not saying I could do better, but I don't think It can be said that they set a good example of professional law enforcement.

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Eric W

6:13 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Not a cop hater. But, I do hate incompetent people who do not know how to do their job properly, and that, in turn, causes someone their life. If you want to be a cop, you have to roll with the punches. You do more harm to them by saying the shooting was justified given the fact that there were three of them and this guy was handcuffed. So, go ahead and taint their image. I'll continue to disagree that this was not the correct way to do ones job.

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Timothy Wirth

4:14 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

If you feel safe that 2 trained officers with quite a few other weapons at their disposal could not handle a handcuffed 130 lb man, you're an idiot. I hope they shoot you next for speeding.

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Resident4

1:59 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Tell me Timothy... what were the other weapons they had at their disposal? Did it say anywhere that Mumbauer had a taser?? Nope... it didn't. He was 160lbs. Not 130lbs. Yes... 30lbs makes a difference. You hope they shoot me next for speeding? lol. That's nice. Glad you're not a cop. Now that I know you're name... you're wishing death threats upon me... glad I'll have the cops to keep me safe from you.

Rich

3:39 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

I'm sure the police didn't want to kill this guy, the fellow was out of control. That being said, they seemed to have really screwed up all over the place, tumbling around even after he was handcuffed, one officer screwing with bystanders while a guy was raving and out of control? . Better training probably could have avoided this death.

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David Powell

3:49 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Obviously, this is going to be an emotional matter for many readers, but I must ask everyone who comments to observe our Terms of Use, which you can find linked at the bottom of the page.

Comments that contain personal attacks or egregious use of profanity will be deleted. Thank you.

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Madelyn

1:47 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I still see you haven't deleted the personal attacks Timothy Wirth did on this one.

Will Simcox

3:59 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Hmm2 cops couldn't subdue a handcuffed man with non-lethal methods? Terrible.

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Jonathan

4:05 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Since when is it legal to kill someone, because they kick you? The idiot that feels safe because police are shooting and killing young kids in the community, better hope she never has a run in with the police in perkasie! This is so wrong, I hope the family hirers a private detective, because everyone knows they are covering up for their own. If the family can not afford to hire a P.D. I hope they start a fund raiser. This is NOT JUSTIFIED!!!

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resident04

5:26 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Jonathan...

It's legal when your life is in danger. It's legal for law enforcement to use deadly force when they feel that their lives, or the lives of others are in danger. Re-read the article please. I live in Perkasie and OMG I've had a run in with the police. I was speeding and I got pulled over... and guess what... the cop wrote me a ticket, told me to have a good day and thanked me for wearing my seatbelt. Excessive force right there! They didn't kill any young kids in the community. They killed a 26 year old MAN. If he can go to college and works as a carpenter... I'm pretty sure that he can be responsible for his own actions. He went off his meds by himself it's stated. I hope you move if you feel that unsafe in the community. Tell me... how does someone "hirer"? They're not covering up for their own... it's justified Jonathan. Move on... and in the mean time... don't call the "scary Perkasie cops" when you're in a bind.

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Eric W

6:10 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Now we'll see how many people shoot each other over a kick. "The cops did it, THEREFORE, I can as well".

Ed

5:00 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Gee Dave ...so much for freedom of speech...say what.you want this whole thing ended wrong..serve and protect...yea got it

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Ethan

5:45 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Feels nice knowing we have murders running around with badges.

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resident04

6:10 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Lol @ Ethan. That's cute. Please stay in the house.

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jason

6:38 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Ok this is insane a 26 year old kid...last time i checked after 21 we are adults or is this some backwoods mentality. Here let me give some advice when u kick a cop in the face he has every right to defend himself. Everyone knows cops use self defense all the time. In my eyes if you will attack a cop youll attack my kid....sorrry if people get irrate over a 26 year adult resisting arrest and kicking a cop. Maybe just maybe if he used his head and didnt resist arrest he wouldnt have been shot. If someone kicks me trust me im defending myself

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Firescue

6:51 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

I'm guessing none of you have seen the super-human strength that comes from a drug induced adrenalin kick. I'v seen 2 GUYS flip a DUMPSTER over. And they wern't much more then 175 lbs each.

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John Q

8:11 pm on Thursday, August 2, 2012

Were their hands cuffed behind their back at the time?

Jonathan

7:11 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Yeah we all know that a 26 yr. Old is an adult, however, he is also someone's child, still able to be covered on his parents healthcare plan, trying to find himself in life, etc. When you get older and wiser Jason and resident, you will realize that you were still a kid at 26. Please think about Michaels family, when casting your stones, he was someone's child that had a mental condition, he did not deserve to be killed. Thank god I do not live in a town, where police pull a gun out, before reaching for a tazer, we would not be having this conversation, had police tazered him, instead of killing him! You must be proud to live in a town where the police are complete idiots, just like you!

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Alex

9:46 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Where were his parents? How can you assume his parents even have insurance or were even in his life to begin with? If this was someone's 26 year old 'kid', those parents should be completely ashamed of themselves for failing their son. I will think of Michael's family once they actually think of him. Also, I would like to point out that if he had the wherewithall to acquire illegal drugs, drive and perform monatery transactions on a regular basis, he then had the ability to responsibly stay on his medications and refrain from illegal drug purchases and use.

jason

7:21 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Im 34 years old...and been in the same situation. Yes it is sad i have seen people shot by cops as well are people like this over that ...no...they were someones kid....i never said he deserved to be killed...but the same aspect if someone lays a hand on me thats the chance they take....how am i the idiot im glad i dont live in a backwoods town that when an officer is attacked they get crucified for defending themselves...so when you get kicked in the face just sit there im sure the person will stop

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jason

7:32 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

And john just for the record i hate cops....if you look into my record they will tell you im all over their radar...but if u attack an officer you never know what the outcome will be....i have been beaten for resisting arrest..but i always knew i took a chance i could have been worse

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Melissa S O'Neill

8:10 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

couldnt they have shot him in the leg or used a taxxor??? I think shooting hom in the chest was just asking to kill the kid..

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Josh Marcus

6:59 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

"couldnt they have shot him in the leg or used a taxxor???" - First, a person affected like he was by the combination of his mental illness and drugs would react about the same as if you were to shoot you with a spitball, it would possibly just make him more agitated. Second, as thin as he was, trying to shoot him in the leg while he is charging you would be extremely difficult and would lead to a greater chance of missing him and possibly striking a building or even worse an innocent bystander, which is possible even blocks away (a bullet fired from a handgun can travel over one hundred yards). Aiming for center-mass (his chest) gives the best chance of hitting your target, and also the best chance of stopping your target as was the case in this shooting.
Third, people that are on drugs as he was are often unaffected by TASERS (the correct spelling, not taxxor) and therefore would've been a wasted effort that would have allowed further injury to the officers.
Last, you only pull your gun when your life, or in a police officers powers when another's life, is in danger because another person intends to harm/kill you, therefore you shoot to kill not hurt!

Concernedcitizen

8:16 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Beaten and shot once in the chest while handcuffed! 2 totally different situations!!!!! Why couldn't they have beat him? At least he would still be here!!!

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Red Neck

6:43 pm on Thursday, August 2, 2012

Yea, just ask Rodney King how that goes. I'm sure Perkasie has resourses like Los Angeles to pay off a civil suite for millions of dollars. BTW he was using drugs when he drowned last month. I would have tased him in the pool just for the hell of it. I've never seen so many liberals cry babying.

A lansdale resident

8:20 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

This entire situation is very sad and I hope the family gets justice!

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Good Riddance

5:20 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

They did get Justice, They got rid of that no good leech of a son. now they can move on with they life without baggage holding them down.

Good Riddance!

Concernedcitizen

8:22 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

@resident04... These are trained police officers who very well should have used non-lethal force! Think of this as your troubled child! They knew him! They have dealt with him before they knew! They took him away from us! They stole his life they stole a family member! They robbed him of life!!! I'm glad you feel safe meanwhile I'm scared for my children's future in this corrupt world! They better not make a mistake!!! They may be justifiably murdered!!!!!UNBELIEVABLE!!!

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Perkasie Resident

9:03 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Have had a previous run in with "Officer Mumbauer". He is a cocky, power tripping "cop" who abuses his "powers" every chance he can. How can anyone say he was justified shooting a man already in handcuffs standing on uneven terain!! He got pissed becasue he got kicked then he went on his own crazy rage. I wouldn't be surprised if he "blacked out" and doesn't even remember KILLING this man. Perkasie police needs to remove this officer from duty. I can think of 10 other ways this could have been handled before shooting a handcuffed man in the chest killing him. MUMBAUER = MURDERER

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Eric W

6:08 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

I think he is probably someone that gets mad easily. Probably a high school drop out as well. They really need to screen cops better. I do not want cops like Mumbauer patrolling near me.

resident04

9:07 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Older and wiser Jonathan? I'm 32 years old. Please tell me what age you become older and wiser? At 26 I lived on my own, raised my child and worked two jobs. I was wise enough to know that mommy and daddy didn't fix all of my problems. I do feel for his family... As I cannot imagine what they are going through. I also feel for the cops and their families. I don't believe that they wanted to kill him. I do feel safe living in my town knowing they're not afraid to use all means possible to protect our town. If you read the story it was a split second decision. Don't judge unless you were there. The cops are idiots just like us? Is that kinda like saying the cops where you live are pussies just like you?

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Fire the DA

12:44 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Yes, split second decision... anger and rage that the "holier than thou" cop was losing a battle against an unarmed, sitting down, cuffed, 5'7" 135 lb young adult.
And as for "family should have had him in a hospital"... you obviously don't know the healthcare system. When they say "see ya", the insurance stops paying the $1000 plus per day bill. We're in the age of "in and out" medical care. We don't decide who stays in a hospital, the doctors/ insurance does. And your "shoot to kill" mentality? That's what you do to rabid dogs. Cops are trained to disarm first. So, yes, a shot to the leg would've solved it. His legs were his weapon. "You' don't ever pull out a weapon to shoot someone in the leg". Sweetheart, yes you do, yes they do, all the time. Or taser. (Obviously you watch too many Law & Orders") Killing is the LAST decision, unless you're in Perkasie jurisdiction. "Boo hoo, he kicked me..... BOOM! Dead! That solved it!" Great mentality you have there! Isn't it time for you to take YOUR meds? LOL!

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Resident4

1:42 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Damn! Missed Fire the DA's comment as well. Ok sweetheart... anger and rage from a holier than thou cop? Good thing you were there to witness this anger and rage. I hope they call you in to testify since you know that information. Marino jumped up (can you read?)... therefore... that is called standing. He was 160lbs... not 135lbs. I guess you can't read... or you just don't pay attention to details. Yes... the family should have had him in the hospital OR the family should have been making sure that he was supervised given they knew of his mental state. My shoot to kill mentality... ok. Obv you know nothing about firearm training or safety. You never pull your weapon to wound someone... you pull your weapon when you feel that your life is in danger. So sweetheart, no you don't, no they don't, all the time. PLEASE... tell me of a time when a cop feels that his life is in danger and he pulled out his gun and aimed for the persons leg and shot. I'd love to read it. I've never seen Law and Order... but thanks... It was the LAST decision. Again... if you people read correctly... two officers had tasers... doesn't say if Mumbauer did. Therefore... his gun was his last decision. It's time to take your meds sweetheart. I heard that ginseng is good for your memory... maybe it can help to you retain information that you read in a published article.

resident04

9:09 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Melissa... You don't ever pull out a weapon to shoot someone in the leg! YoU only pull your weapon because you are in fear of your life. You shoot to kill.

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resident04

9:11 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

Concernedcitizen. While I feel sorry for your family's loss at the same time I still believe this was justified. I do feel safe. I'm sorry that you do not. If my child had the same problems as Michael Marino. I would damn sure he was taking his meds... If not.., then he would be in a hosptial.

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Tired of punks who have badges

9:45 am on Thursday, August 2, 2012

You are a idiot and probably racist as well. Know plenty of police officers a deadly force is a LAST option. Police are allowed to mase, taser, n shoot with no lethal force when necessary (waist down). So they kid that was shot in the temple while handcuffed in the backseat of a squad car in Memphis had it coming as well huh?

Jonathan

9:44 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

@ resident are you calling cops that use tazers pussies? Wow, you are a complete idiot! The real pussy is the cop that handcuffs a young man and then shoots him in the chest! If he didn't mean to kill him, he would not have reached for his gun, he would have reached for a tazer.
Good for you, you worked two jobs and had a child, wow you deserve a medal, bravo. Some people in this world are not as fortunate, some people are born with disabilities, and do not function at such a high level as yourself, do they all deserve to be shot and killed, I'm sure his parents did what they could for him, and even if they didn't doesn't give some cop the right to kill him in cold blood , while handcuffed. You have a lot of nerve to blame grieving parents for the murder of their child! Shame on you! You can go to hell, with that murderer you call a hero!

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Good Riddance

5:19 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

yeah they should be disposed of. The world is overcrowded as it is, it doesn't need to have leaches draining all the resources for everyone else. if you cant support yourself, whether its mental illness or disability, you should be put down. no sense in making life harder for everyone else around them who have to go out of their way to help them and wait on them. you do it to every other creature in the world, why not people too. The world would be such a better place if you filtered out the leaches, handicapped, degenerates, criminals, and anyone else who is a drain on society.

Good Riddance.

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Eric W

6:20 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

This Good Riddance person is just a miserable person. Does not like themselves and detests the world at large. It's a good thing the cops who did the shooting do not think like she does.

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chris blocke

11:18 am on Thursday, August 2, 2012

the man that was shot and killed had no redeeming qualities. where i do agree there are rouge cops in every department, i don't think police take the use of deadly force for granted. the processes and internal affairs investigations required post shooting can result in charges, loss of job and income and jail time if the shooting is not ruled clean. right or wrong you must obey directions given by an officer. assualting an officer is an invitation for deadly force cuffed or not. whose to say what a damage a person can do if hopped up on drugs and uncontrolable. a simple strong kick placed in the right place can permenantly injure or maim an officer.

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Eric W

6:06 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Chris Blocke, your comment makes no sense. "no redeeming qualities". What are you suggesting, that the police use your criteria to off people? Have you seen his facebook page? He has family and friends and they are not trashy or ghetto. But, in spite of all of that, you are ignorant for even suggesting that is criteria for the way police handle the public. Grow up!

resident04

10:20 pm on Monday, July 30, 2012

No I'm not calling cops that use tasers pussies. I was making an idiotic statement to compare to yours. Obv the cop felt threatened enough to pull his gun and not his taser. Did you read the earlier report that they used tasers on him last year and it didn't affect him?!?!?! Hmmm. Let that one sink in Jonathan. Then what? I thank you for your applause in my ability to be an adult, and to know how to act in society. Who said that all people with disabilities deserve to be shot and killed? Wasnt me... I believe I just read that in your comment. What I said was that this man is an adult and responsible for his own actions. He decided to go off of his meds... Knowing that he needed them. I don't know if his parents did everything they could for him. I don't know them. He was allowed to drive a car, go to college, work a job and do whatever the hell he wanted. Maybe he had everyone fooled that he was ok. I'm not blaming his family. You just want to blame the cop and anyone that doesn't believe what you do. I stayed that if he were my child and had those issues I would have him in a hosptial or be damn sure he was taking his meds if I felt he was a threat. If you wish me to go to hell... You'll be right there with your judgemental self. Calm down and go change your diaper... It's starting to smell.

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Suzanne Gerard

12:41 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

I don't understand WHY he was living with his sister and she just goes on vacation leaving him alone! Where were his parents then? Why was he living in a broke in building? Where was this "loving, concerned" family then?

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Annie Maxwell

6:56 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

It's a terrible story that no matter how it ended would be awful. My heart goes out to the victim's family and the families of the officers involved. This is a tragedy for all involved.

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bill murphy

7:13 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

It sucks that this happened but the police only knew they had a crazed person that was threatening everyones life and his actions showed he was serious. Its sad to say but this was his responsibility.. he chose to stop taking meds and he chose to get high, he chose death over life and he is and should be held responsible for his action addiction leads to jails institutions and death he chose his path the police were doing there job.

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jason

7:30 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Why does everyone care now....noone cared when he was off his meds? If he was known to be ill where was his family when this happend where was his friends....especially since it was revealed that it happend last year? And it was provven it took 6 people to hold him then...the system failed him...the police failed him and most of all his family and friends failed him

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kevin

8:17 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Jason has a good point. No one cared about this guy until now, and most will just write him off as crazy and nothing more. Same with the shooter in CO, people want to lock him up and throw away the key. We need to have compassion and try to understand these people to avoid situations like this in the future. Obviously a guy who shouldn't be part of the free world.

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kevin

8:21 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

I've always been a big supporter for police using force to protect themselves. It's easy to say what they should've done when your not in a situation fighting for your life having zero idea what this guy might do. That being said, this story makes no sense, and it sounds like they dropped the ball. Those taser guns are great, they should have used them LONG before this point to try and subdue this guy. Then again if they did that there would be a bunch of people saying "why did they zap an unarmed handcuffed man!?"

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Resident4

1:22 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Lose-Lose situation for the cops.

Reader19454

9:00 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

How dare you people try to say what the family should or should not have done. You have NO IDEA what they went through with this man. Do you have any mentally ill family members? Like someone above said- the family does not dictate how long someone stays in the hospital- the INSURANCE COMPANY DOES. The man was mentally ill- he may have chosen not to take his meds, but being mentally ill, he didn't comprehend that that was a poor decision. And HOW DARE YOU blame his sister for going on vacation! I'm sure she had a life outside of babysitting her brother! You have NO RIGHT!!! I don't even know this family and I can't believe how ignorant some of you are! You have NO IDEA what it's like to care for a mentally ill family member, you have NO IDEA about the lack of resources available. You people REALLY need to get off of your soapboxes!

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Good Riddance

5:15 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

If he was 'mentally ill' then the police did everyone a favor. less of a drain on the kids famiily, less of a drain on society. Good riddance!

And yes, I have disabled family, and if i wouldn't get in trouble, i'd end it for them as well. nothign but a drain on everyone around them.

Good riddance!

Nadia

9:17 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Police do not enjoy killing people. But maybe they could have used their baton first and given the guy a whack or two. As for Heckler, when he was judge he always handed out the maximum sentence...he was one nasty judge...seems he has another, softer, side for law enforcement.

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Love25

9:29 am on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Reader19454, you are completely right about the insurance companies, they do control how long a person can stay at a hospital or treatment facility as well as the amount and type of drugs he is being prescribed. It is a sad truth. I would not blame his family. Hopefully he finally has peace in his mind. Very sorry to all involved family and officers alike.

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jason

12:44 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

You cant blame a officer for a split second decision...if i had a mentally ill i would put his well being above anything because he is not in a state of mind to make a decision for himself...and people like madyican (how ever you say it) is making a soap box for themselves and saying thhe officer was wrong yes he was, but would u say the same if the officer was your relative and he was in a life or death situation...and made the decision to go home to his family....or should he have let himself be on the front page as another officer murdered by a drug addict...you people act liked he got joy out of shooting him...but you know if the officer was your husband..father...or brother you would feel better knowing he was safe

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Eric W

6:04 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Jason, I think Mumbauer was mad because he got his testicles kicked in. Most guys would react harshly but he chose this career in life. He is a gun toting bully. I hope he loses his job.

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Resident4

1:20 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Exactly Jason! A lot of these "concerned citizens" obv have never had to make a split second, life or death, decision before in their lives. Their biggest split second decisions are Burger King or McDonalds! I think the family and friends of Marino should stop trying to fight everything... and stop to think that they were part of the problem. They weren't there for their "mentally ill" son/friend... otherwise he would be in the hospital or supervised. He was allowed to roam the streets and do whatever the frick he wanted. If he was allowed to do this, and to go to school and work a job... then he should be considered an adult, correct? Responsible for his own actions? Actions that he took that day. This Madicyn chick is ridiculous. I've read all of her protests and reform crap. She doesn't even live here. Doesn't live in Perkasie. Claims to know first hand about shady cops and drug dealing in Perkasie. Hmmmm.... lmao. I'm sure they know her too. I'm sure this cop has horrible remorse for having to make a decision to end someone's life... but like you said... it was either him going home to his family... or him on the cover of the newspaper for being killed by a druggie. Gives me chills to even think about what would have happened that day if in fact Marino had gotten control of Mumbauer's weapon. IT IS POSSIBLE... to those of you that think you know everything.

kevin

1:01 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

let things like this also be a reminder why we need a health care system in this country that can take care of people like this, and not the insurance companies bottom line. People are too worried about themselves any more, and while a bit of that is good for you, the common good needs to be considered as well.

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Good Riddance

5:12 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

What does healthcare have to do with idiots doing illegal drugs? I know...NOTHING. you, sir, are an idiot as well.

Kim

1:17 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Man is high and out of control, resisting arrest and lashing out at police. Unjustified? Did you people even READ the article?? So the police shouldve just let themselves be attacked and possible killed out of sympathy because this man had a "mental illness" and made the choice to get high? People are just blinded by emotions, too close to the situation and are trying to find anyone to blame except for the person actually responsible...the one who took drugs, got high and resisted arrest. Its sad but totally justified. I would also feel safe in a town where the police were okay using lethal force on a man who was high, combative and acting in a threatening manner towards innocent citizens. Unbiased witnesses are backing the police. If you are a danger to the police and threatening residents of your town, you are a danger to society. There are consequences to that. Justified. End of story.

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Nadia

1:34 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Kim...what you say is true...but you sound high tempered...I might be afraid of running into you.

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Eric W

4:21 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Good thing you are not a police officer, Kim. You obviously do not have the training nor the strength NOT TO use deadly force. If you READ THE ARTICLE (as you suggest), you will note the DA's observation of the flawed police procedure. Three officers were at the scene and only two acted on the suspect. The third could have contributed to handling the subject in order that lethal force could have been prevented. Given the poor police handling of the subject, they lost control and had to use deadly force. Please, if you are a cop, just quit. And if you think you can be a cop: don't. For you to suggest this should be routine (killing mentally ill, drugged out suspects while handcuffed) tells me the Police should be looking after you. There is clearly something wrong with you. Police are not murderers but you sure do make them out to be with your mindset, Kim.

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Red Neck

10:48 pm on Thursday, August 2, 2012

Kim, I couldn't have expressed MY feelings on this matter any better than you just did.

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Kim

8:23 am on Friday, August 3, 2012

Eric W. - Are YOU a cop? You certainly don't have the ability to read and comprehend sentences. First, nowhere in my comment did I suggest or even come close to insinuating this should be "routine". That is something you are going way outside of the box to infer simply to fit your "argument". Second, I never said that none of the cops actions were flawed. I simply said I believe it was justified. That doesnt mean that I found absolute perfection in all actions they took. Again, just something you stretched to fit your argument. Third, I know many many police officers personally and certainly would not suggest any of them are murderers as many of the commenters here suggest. I most certainly have the strength to not use deadly force when its not warranted. However, I would feel totally justified using it if a drugged out, combative, aggressive man who threatened several of my towns residents, attacked me and continued to fight and attack despite being handcuffed (and on the many previous occasion I came into contact with this person for the same issues was unresponsive to a taser). You are the problem with this society Eric. We are in a society where everyone wants to blame someone else for their problems. Did the police force this man to get high? Did they force him to go around town threatnening innocent people? Did they force him to resist arrest and be combative? No. He chose that. It is very sad what happened to Mr. Marino. But it was his choice to act that way.

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resident04

3:28 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Kim... I honestly don't believe that even have of these posters CAN read... and the ones who can... choose only to read what they want to... forgetting all of the facts. It's beyond disgusting (as so many have wrote about the police shooting and community members supporting the police)... that this many biased idiots live in this town.

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Eric W

6:02 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

You did justify the cops actions, Kim. Read your last statement in your reply to me, saying the suspect brought it on himself. You remain ignorant.

Kim

1:54 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Nadia - If that sounds "high tempered" to you, you have issues that maybe you want to seek meds for. Seriously. Relax there, tiger. Go back and watch the pretty butterflies and sing kumbaya. Its funny that instead of actually contributing something to the conversation, you choose to be silly and show your ignorance of grammar, context and the english language.

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Jp

2:40 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Thier is NO reason to shoot someone who is unarmed , and to top it all off is in handcuffs. Murder is murder!!!!

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Paul J. Soentgen, III.

3:20 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Hey Patch,

Why did you take down my post. The truth shall set you free.

Everyone else, this case is no shock, Pennsylvania is corrupt from top to bottom. Nevermind the cash for kids scandal, the Penn State and Tom Corbett campaign scandal, the Pa. Supreme Court Justice scandal, check out the Pa. scandal that has practically destroyed my interracial family by going to Youtube via:

THE LYNCHING OF VIRGINIA SOENTGEN

or check out our nationally and internationally known website at:

www.Photobucket.com/albums/a288/Psoentgen/

Very truly yours,
Paul J. Soentgen, III.

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Eric W

3:25 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

If the police can kill you while handcuffed, how safe do you feel around the police? This tells me that, even while handcuffed and even while several police are present, the police are incapable of doing their job. So if this is not grounds for criminal charge, it ought to be grounds for firing and I strongly believe the cops (all three of them) should be fired. They performed their job incorrectly leading to their situation that caused them to lose control of Marino. If the police are not fired, then we, as citizens of Perkasie/Sellersville, are not safe! Incompetent police officers using lethal force because they do not know how to control a subject. Please do the right thing a FIRE these Police Officers.

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Good Riddance

5:10 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

you're an idiot. enough said.

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Resident4

1:11 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

To answer your question... I, for one, feel very safe around the police. I have never encountered a problem with any of the police in Perkasie... yes... I've been pulled over for speeding... but it was handled professionally and I didn't feel "threatened or scared". But... then again... I don't do drugs or break the law... so I would have no reason to fight the police, or to be so completely out of hand that I could be putting myself or someone else's life in danger. Did you even read the report? Mumbauer stated that, "he didn't recall hearing the left cuff click"... therefore... being on the ground with your jaw and your balls kicked... I'm sure that feels awesome... and then seeing Marino on his feet lunging at you with his LEFT arm bent forward... (now remember... that's the one he doesn't recall hearing click)... towards you and your service weapon. What would you do Eric W.? Lay there? They did their job. Move on. You are such a drama queen! It's really ridiculous! "IF THE POLICE ARE NOT FIRED, THEN WE, AS CITIZENS OF PERKASIE/SELLERSVILLE, ARE NOT SAFE!"... If you feel that your life is in danger because of the cops... then please... move.

Good Riddance

5:09 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Good riddance. another white-trash moron off the streets and not crowding the jails. Give that man a medal!!

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kevin

6:08 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

don't worry. Just because your ignorant and self centered, when the cops shoot you for running your mouth (which of course you wouldn't dream of doing outside the internet) i won't say good riddance. I'll stick up for even you.

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Eric W

6:18 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Mrs. Riddance, what does your husband think of your eyesore of a comment? If you have nothing nice to say, keep it to yourself, young lady.

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Good Riddance

9:49 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Where did this idea that I was a woman come from? Just shows the stupidity in the world. You want my name? its andrew. I figured the good riddance name sends my point of view home better though.

You want my address too? I happen to live real close to Officer Mumbauer ;)

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Eric W

9:55 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

So, your name is Andrea? Ok, Andrea. Your feminine streak shows. Look, grow up. I don't care if you were Officer Mumbauer's siamese twin. You are no body, ma'am. But someone who wants to play advocate for someone you will never get to know personally.

Eric W

6:22 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Good Riddance fears posting her name. What a sad individual, to hide behind two common words. 'Good' and 'Riddance'. You are obviously ashamed of your opinion otherwise would have used NORMAL names. Get therapy, Good Riddance. You are very needy at this point.

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Joe K

7:28 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Hands cuffed..The explaination is an insult to the intelligence of decent people.Murder is murder..The D.A. is as dirty as the cop that fired the shot in anger....Ironically If this kid were black, or had wealthy parents, the cowardly D.A. would have hung the cop..The devil is in the details.

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Eric W

9:53 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

It sure is. The District Attorney was also protecting a pristine Bucks County record of JUSTIFIED Police related killings. Several prior instances where cops shot and killed suspects. Not one was ever ruled unjustified. This DA was just too scared to set the precedence however obvious it is, that this cop made a grave mistake. I believe he shot the guy out of anger.

kevin

7:55 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

while i think this was handled wrong, lets also try to understand the situation the officers were in, that we've mostly likely never been in, or never will be in. I don't know if he shot out of anger, but probably more likely fear. The fact is suburban cops don't deal with this type of danger all that often, and when it comes down to it he probably panicked and shot like most people would

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Eric W

9:48 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Kevin, like Frank T. said, the Police Officers have an obligation to do their job correctly. When they don't, and especially when it results in death, you don't write it off as a simple matter of inexperience. You devalue life that way. Police work is tough. I don't disagree there. However, if you are not cut out for it (which I believe these three cops are), get a new career.

Joe K

8:54 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

5'7" 135 pounds handcuffed behind back....panicked??don't protect the institution, when u know its wrong..please.

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kevin

9:37 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Joe,
i think something is very wrong here, it doesn't add up, and i think it's b.s. that these guys are free and clear of this. However, yes panic, it's human and it will happen no matter what. Your brain doesn't consider height weight and restraints. Let's not forget this guy was on the same type of drugs that made kids jump of the roof of a parking complex, made a man rip his own testicles off, another eat a persons face, and one guy years ago who stole a tank and went on a rampage!

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resident04

3:13 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Ummm... if you read the report correctly... he was 5'7" 160lbs.

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Eric W

10:57 pm on Sunday, August 5, 2012

oh yes, 5' 7" is such an intimidating stature at 160 lbs. Average weight of males in US is 190. Height is 5' 10". The cops out muscled this guy and the weaklings still had to use their gun. Just goes to show how dangerous they are not knowing how to do their jobs properly.

Frank T.

9:23 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

@ Kevin, Police officers are trained to deal with situations like this. No one knows the true story, and I find it hard to believe that if they feared for there lives, and he was so out of control like they say how were they able to handcuff him? And why would the 3rd officer walk away, to tell an eye witness to back away, what were they doing to that kid, that they did not want a witness nearby? I have alot of questions, nothing adds up. I hope the family gets an outside investigation, because this is a cover up for murder, if I have ever seen one!

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kevin

9:34 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

i agree frank, it doesn't add up. But like you said, we don't know the true story so you can't just assume they did something "wrong" or shot him not in self defense. I think it's fishy, but my point is lets try to see it from all sides. I know they go through training, but your never ready for something like this in the real world. How many people have you seen already say "just shoot him in the leg" like it's a die hard movie and that can really happen in the heat of the moment

kevin

9:47 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

does anyone know if the report to DA released is available anywhere online, or even an article summing it up? I would be interested to read some of that.

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Patch_comments_icon

Tony Di Domizio

3:47 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

A PDF file of the report can be found in our photo gallery

Eric W

10:01 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

"Good Riddance" makes the claim that he knows Officer Mumbauer (the cop who pulled the trigger). Based on her remarks alone, I would say Officer Mumbauer is a slimeball POS who deserves to be stripped of his badge. Good Riddance, don't defile the cops name by admitting you know him and than say such sick things like "Good Riddance, the mentally ill are a drain on the system".... If this cop thinks like you, Perkasie is in danger.

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Joe K

10:21 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

I have no dog in this fight. I believe in law and order. Allowing a cop to get away with murder by creating a panic scenerio that could be applied to any situation is a dangerous precedent.

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kevin

10:59 pm on Tuesday, July 31, 2012

Joe,
i don't mean to put the idea of panic forward as being okay in the eyes of the law here. Just on a human level.

Matthew

10:53 am on Wednesday, August 1, 2012

Some of the people making such cruel comments about a sadly ill human being need to speak with their God real soon!!!!

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Arnold S

3:21 pm on Thursday, August 2, 2012

All of you people second guessing the cops, they should have dropped this guy off in YOUR neighborhood while your kids are outside playing. Do us all a favor and DONT CALL the police when you find yourself in a bind because they just might shoot you! Let me ask a question, If it was you and you had a family waiting for you at home and you felt this animal was going to kill you-what would you do? Everybody's an expert these days.

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Proud to be an American

10:53 pm on Thursday, August 2, 2012

Arnold S: Very well said. These police officers were fulfilling their duties to "Serve and Protect." I guarantee all of the idiots who have commented that this was not justified are NOT in law enforcement and have never been in this situation. These police officers (and Fireman) work hard to ensure all citizens are safe. Thank you for your service.

My heart goes out to the Marino family as the loss of a child, regardless of the situation is always difficult, but seriously, the time to "lawyer up" should have been before there son was a nuisance to society. He had a mental illness, he should have been in an institution or under their 24 hour care. If they were unsuccessful in obtaining help for him, then they have no right to obtain a lawyer.
It's a disgrace that people blame the Police for criminals behavior. The Police have a job to do and deserve to go home safe to their families.

Here's food for thought: Get up, get a job and go to work everyday. If every person would perform one random act of kindness this world would go up, rather than the direction were heading.
I am glad that my hard earned tax dollars don't have to house this person in prison for the remainder of my life. I prefer my tax dollars go to the police, fire and servicemen who do their best on a daily basis to protect and serve us.

Thanks...

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Kim

8:36 am on Friday, August 3, 2012

Very well said Arnold. Everyone these days wants to blame someone else. Its the cops fault this guy was a drugged out criminal, its the teachers fault their kid is failing school, its McDonalds fault that they're fat. It goes on and on. There is no accountability anymore.

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resident04

3:11 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Thank you Arnold S. for your level head! Where were all of these "experts" that day? I love how people bash the police for protecting the community in the way that they felt best possible for the situation. The police have a lose lose situation in this case. If Marino somehow got loose... then the cops are weak for not being able to detain him... No one wants to live up to the responsibilities of their own actions. Bunch of whiny cry babies. This is Perkasie... not Philly. If it is so corrupt here... why is this the first police shooting in what 36 years or something?

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Eric W

5:55 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

NEWSFLASH: It's their job. They must respond. You act like they are doing it for free. In this case, they did a very bad job. VERY BAD because their actions caused the events that lead to the shooting (DA makes that suggestion in his report). Since they did not follow proper procedures, I hope they get fired. I'm sure they have to live with what they did for the rest of their lives but I am convinced: I do not want such incompetent police officers patrolling my neighborhood.

Becca

5:10 pm on Thursday, August 2, 2012

"Justifiable Homicide" the term itself leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

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Jeff Lugar

5:39 pm on Thursday, August 2, 2012

"Homocide" just means one person taking another's life willingly. It's not a term that by itself necessarily means that act was evil; that's what "murder" is for.

american hero

9:39 am on Friday, August 3, 2012

"Animal" and "nuisance to society" ..I'm sure the police are thrilled to have such eloquent intellectuals speaking in their defense.

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AidanJ

1:02 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Sad story. Feel bad for the family of the victim and for the officer who has to live with himself for the rest of his life.

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Alicia

1:46 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

"Heckler said to prosecute Mumbauer would to make him a scapegoat for those who decided Marino could be free without supervision.

"It would be to make that officer a scapegoat for society's choice to cut corners & hope for the best where the mentally ill are concerned, & for society's decision that when things don't go well with the mentally ill, we'll let the criminal justice system handle the mess that follows," he said."
This is disgusting. I've been a resident of Perkasie for over 40 years. To blame the family & society, for a mentally ill man on the streets & use the farce of an excuse that the Mumbauer should not be made a scapegoat is incompetent & obscenely insensitive to the people in our county dealing with mental health issues. Heckler needs to be voted out. So, what, if you're mentally ill it's justifiable to open fire? The truth of the matter is the Perkasie Police were incompetent. They let anger & frustration get the best of them instead of remaining level-headed & calm in this situation & they should NOT go unpunished. That's the bottom line. Shooting a handcuffed man is MURDER. Blaming the family is beyond revolting & before everyone wants to blame a mentally ill young man, maybe you should visit the numbers of people that suffer some form of mental illness in our society. I've never seen our Police go after anyone but young adults & teenagers. God forbid they actually go after the Drug dealers in this town and soil "Olde Town Perkasie's" reputation.

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resident04

3:02 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Marino should not have been free without supervision. He was dealing with a lot of issues, a lot of anger and a lot of paranoia. He should have been in a hospital or living with someone that could supervise him. He thought the zombies were out to get him last year and it took SIX officers to detain him. Tell me Alicia... why didn't they shoot him then? Was it because they had enough officers to tackle him? Hmmm... do the math on that one. If it took 6 to get him under control before... and there were only 3 at this last incident... maybe the police were at the losing end of this fight? If Perkasie is such a corrupt town... why in the hell have you lived here for 40 years? Must not be that bad. Shooting a handcuffed man who is kicking and resisting police (and the cop wasn't sure if the handcuffs truly locked before this happened) is not murder. Would you be able to handle this guy? Doubt it. Keep your one sided opinions to yourself unless you were there and witnessed everything that day.

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Lansdale Resident

3:49 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

"I've never seen our Police go after anyone but young adults & teenagers. God forbid they actually go after the Drug dealers in this town and soil "Olde Town Perkasie's" reputation."
So the only police activity that occurs in Perkasie is when you are watching??? Again this is not a comment based on fact...it is based on assumption on what you have "see"...do you work in the police station? Or do you have an "innocent" teenager that the Perkasie police accused of something that your child would never do!!!!
When making arguments for your side use fact!
Do you fre

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Alicia

12:20 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Resident4, you make me laugh. Even the D.A feels that the officers mishandled the situation. Perkasie has gotten worse over the years and if you don't see that you are the one that is blind. Lansdale resident- worry about your town.

Lansdale Resident

3:44 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

WOW!!! I have just sat here and read these comments and I must say I find it very interesting that so many individuals that feel the cops are in the wrong speak as though they dropped out of school by the age of 13. This is not an emotional issue. This is an issue that facts need to be looked at. The drugs this individual had in his system are ones that would raise his adrenaline, increase his strength and decrease the pain he felt. If a sober and clear minded individual were resisting arrest the police would have a much greater chance of controlling them. Police are here to protect and serve...however....I also find it interesting that many of the statements regarding the law enforcement being in the wrong are individuals that also mention that they have encounters with the law. If you are a nuisance and not a productive member of society you really do not have much credibility. It has been in my experience that most of the people that complain about law enforcement are ones that have had "run ins".

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Eric W

5:52 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012

Did you read the DA's report? He says the cops were not in control of the situation. Obviously, he does not have the final say but he does understand police procedures. Another obvious thing for you (since you claim everyone who disagrees with you is a high school drop out), there were 3 police officers. One was distracted playing traffic director. Apparently, he should have been with the other two when the suspect went haywire. If you continue to justify the shooting, have at it. But to me, a College graduate, I know a failed procedure when I see one. In most companies, you get canned if your mistake cost a life. That is what we have here: these three officers do not deserve their jobs. They should be fired! I hope the chief does the correct thing so I can come back and laugh at your post.

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Alicia

12:24 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Eric W, it's obvious that many of the defenders hiding behind their screen names did not read the DA's report. These officers should be fired. The DA made it clear they mishandled everything and if they hadn't the homicide wouldn't have occurred.

american hero

9:29 am on Saturday, August 4, 2012

Yes.>The cop had doubt about the handcuffs, and let it go..Using failure to explain an execution..Throw in the superhuman strength,2 cops getting destroyed simultaneously by a tiny man with no arms, bomb-making and the easter bunny..sure..Truth is there was not a scratch on any one involved, just a well-cuffed little fellow with a center shot.

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Alexander Astro

9:48 am on Monday, August 6, 2012

I don't hate anyone. Police do their jobs, people with mental illness will make mistakes. And I don't think they meant to kill him, but they did.

For the DA to say it was justified is absurd. I also love how he goes out of his way to lay blame on others after stating that the primary players shouldn't be scapegoats.

How this dude kicked Mumbauer in the crotch and face, I'll never know. The guy is giant. I really don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that he got angry and lashed out, but we will never know.

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Resident04

1:35 pm on Wednesday, August 8, 2012

Oh Alicia... you make me laugh. I have read the DA's report... and read it open minded... not biased like you read it. If you want to pretend that Marino wasn't on some crazy drugs and threatening the lives of people... go ahead and believe that. Yes... he said that they should have handled things differently... but unless you were there to make that judgement... you can't say anything. The shooting was deemed JUSTIFIED. Get over yourself... move on lady. Why don't you go make some citizens arrests of all the drug dealers by Olde Towne? Of course people are going to hide behind screen names! Who in their right mind would post their name on a public forum like this? So crazy idiots can harass you in public instead of just online. Turn your brain on. Thanks.

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Eric W

4:57 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Resident04, you are misinformed and ignorant. And confused! If every cop acted like these incompetent police officers, it would be a Police State. You want a Police State dont you? You seem awfully convinced that people who use drugs deserve to be murdered by the police. It's folks like you who just love the Police so much because they make you feel safe, you cannot believe a cop can do a bad job. Hence, the reason you are ignorant. You clearly are! I do not have to be there to understand the logic. Do you know what logic is? I did not think so. Logic does not rule your thinking (that is apparent). I stand by my criticism of the Police out of concern for my neighborhood. I do not want cops around who do not know how to use a gun properly. If you think this cop did the right thing, there is no hope for you. As I said, you are ignorant.

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resident4

11:22 am on Friday, August 31, 2012

I'm misinformed, ignorant and confused! LOL. I think you may be talking about yourself there little boy. When did I ever say that I don't think a cop can be bad? I have read plenty of stories of bad cops. There are bad eggs in every profession. This situation... though... the cops did the right thing for their own safety. I don't care if you don't agree with me. I don't care if you don't feel safe in your neighborhood. I do. Don't call the police when you're in trouble. Logic is something that you lack Eric. I hope to God that we do not live in the same neighborhood. They obv know how to use a gun properly. Do you? Do you even own a gun? Do you protect your property and your family with hugs? There is no hope for you Eric... Could you please say ignorant one more time? Writing it 6 times in a comment isn't enough. Is that your big boy word of the day?

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Eric W

2:12 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Resident 4, yes you are ignorant! On one hand you say "you were not there, how can you judge".. then, on another .. "the cops did the right thing"... you are a token of a poor education. Then, you deny the fact that you paint all cops as saints in uniform. Quit squirming, stick with your ideals and quit trying to make yourself out to be someone close to law enforcement because you're not.

Liberty 1

4:32 am on Friday, August 10, 2012

In the words of the late and not so great loser, "Can't we all just get along".

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Matthew

5:58 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

So what i get from this is that if you are wrestling with your teenage son or daughter and they kick u in the jaw, you can shoot them in the chest!!!!

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Resident04

10:23 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Matthew... You're a complete jackass. I hope that you haven't reproduced.

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Matthew

10:53 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Resident 4, unfortunately your mother has!!!!

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Resident4

12:46 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Ooohh... good one Matthew. Mom jokes never get old. Grow up.

Brunell

10:59 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Police in any town are trained and go through a process to be hired that most of us would not want to be subjected. Just remember they carry a loaded weapon, that when unprotected, can be used by a suspect to do great harm. If they feel that their weapon is in danger, they must act to protect that weapon from being overtaken. When you wear an unconcealed weapon in plain sight designed to be removed quickly that is a HUGE responsibility. Once the officer removes his weapon training kicks in and where the shot is placed is reaction based on extensive repetitive training tought to keep an officer from freezing or hesitating. Most of these guys are out there to protect us and I am grateful. I am sure this officer is feeling the consequences of his actions. The real question is who was responsible for this individual. The police are not everyone's family, doctors, counselors, etc. The loss of life is tragic but it seems like there is plenty of blame to go around! I feel for both the officer and the family.

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Matthew

11:25 pm on Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Brunell, I appreciate your well thought out reply. I don't totally agree with you, as I have first hand experinece with the psychological testing, and training of police officers and also the treatment or lack thereof of people with mental health issues.
Yes there is a lot of blame to go around.

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Proud to be an American

12:05 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Very well said Brunell and I completely agree with you. Being the daughter of a retired Philadelphia Policeman, I am fortunate as my Dad came home to me every night.

The police are out to protect us and I am also grateful for this. Of course, I am a decent, law abiding citizen who gets up and does the right thing all the time and I don't live off the government. Typically (not all the time) the people who don't agree with the police want to 'break the law' or have broken the law and don't like them because they can't rob, steal and blame or sue someone when things go wrong.

I am thankful for ALL Police and Firemen who put their lives on the line everyday to protect us all.

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Eric W

5:03 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Evidently, the training was not remembered in this circumstance, Brunell. The police chief is reviewing the case and I look forward to hearing these incompetent police officers will be removed from the streets. Whenever you do your job and it results in a loss of life because of the way you did your job, you should be fired.

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Joe K

1:00 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

You make suburban cops out to be Seal Team Six...The only heroes in this world are congressional medal of honor types...All this hero and extreme danger nonsense
only causes problems in these bored cops heads..Anyone who has ever been in actual combat would know..A cop gets killed by a drunk off duty and gets a "public paid" million dollar "hero" funeral..Truth is its more dangerous to be a clerk than a cop..There are very few heroes in this world and none considers themself to be one.

Russ

1:37 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

While it is very sad that a family lost their son, this ADULT set up his own demise. These punks get all whacked out on drugs and think they are invincible. They have no respect for the law or for other people. I think he displayed that before he was shot. Did you cop haters read how much crap was in his system!? Real upstanding citizen there! It is unfortunate that he had to die, but to hate on the police who are there to PROTECT the normal, non drug abusing, law abiding citizens, is wrong. When you act like an animal, you get treated like one. If I kick a cop in the face for no reason at all and I get shot....I deserve it.

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Proud to be an American

2:25 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Also agree and very true!!! Unfortunate a life was lost, but fortunately, my hard earned money has been spared for 'hopefully' something more worthy than the court, jail and lawyers cost for these losers.

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Eric W

5:00 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Russ, so don't become a Police Officer if you don't want to deal with people on drug.

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Brunell

7:57 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Eric W, If you read the report, a non drug abusing citizen called it in to the police. As I see it, they did not randomly pursue this individual. So I don't understand your comment regarding being a police officer dealing with people on drugs. The people that called it in we ordinary citizens, not police officers. They WERE dealing with people on drugs and asked for the assistance of the police department because they feared for their safety and/or the safety of others. Your statement does not make sense.

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Brunell

7:59 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Russ, in addition I agree.

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Eric W

2:16 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Brunnel, so don't become a police officer if you don't want to deal with people on drugs. I don't understand where you get this idea that I assumed the police were stalking this guy. The point I am making is that you need to deal with all types of criminals as a LEO. You can't take the easy way of shooting someone to death simply because they kicked you. This is a case of bad police work and folks like you and Russ could not do the job given your lack of restraint or your obvious inability to handle various situations.

Proud to be an American

10:01 pm on Thursday, August 30, 2012

Eric W: Maybe you should become a police officer and see if you can do a better job. After you wear the uniform, you may have a different opinion.

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resident4

11:16 am on Friday, August 31, 2012

He can't. He's too biased and scared to become a cop. He couldn't handle it.

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Eric W

2:08 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

No thank you. I make twice their salary and wouldn't want to put up with people like you.

Eric W

2:22 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

resident 4, you bore me with your insults. i'm not going to sit here and pretend to know you or your abilities but I can assure you if we met, I would change your mind about this incident over a cup of coffee. No, that is not an offer for a date or to meet up in person. I just don't have the time to respond to your juvenile insults. Grow up. Get a job. Be productive.

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resident4

4:47 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I'm glad that I bore you with my insults. Obv not enough for you to not reply though, right? I'm sure I could make you think different on the situation as well. You only see one side. I have a job sweetheart... And I'm very productive. I,also, make twice a cops salary and could never be one either... Why? Same answer as yours... Dealing with people with your mindset. Dealing with grown adults who need babysitters because their families wash their hands of them. Dealing with people accusing you of murder for protecting yourself and the lives around you. Not such a pleasant job, huh? Go ahead and say that I'm not as close to law enforcement as I pretend to be. Hahaha... You know nothing. You're quite comical though. A token of poor education? Hahaha... There you go again. Too funny.

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Eric W

8:37 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Resident4, I am not your sweetheart. Obviously, I am responding to highlight your ignorance. You pretend to be close to the law enforcement community and call anyone who disagrees with the police 'sweetheart' or 'drug abusers'. Then, like a fly on poop, you throw your pom-pom's in the air and cheer when someone replies that Marino deserved to die. It is obvious that you have a mean streak and that you sink your teeth into people when you can because it makes you feel better about yourself. Am I correct? Don't even bother answering me. I have made up my mind. Maybe MIchael Marino's mother can help you. I hear she works in the mental health community. Oh, but that should be wrong of me to say because, as some ignorant types have suggested "she should have helped him". Why do I continue to give you these things to sink your meanstreak fangs into? Why are you such a mean person?

Eric W

8:39 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I just want to put this comment out there: "you weren't there, so how should you know if the police were right or wrong."
So, let me throw that back at the people saying the cops actions were correct. How DO YOU KNOW Marino was a threat to the police officers if you were not there? hmmmm?

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Brunell

9:05 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

The people who called it in witnessed the event.....read the report.

Eric W

9:10 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

But you were not there, Brunell. What you are reading is hearsay. What I am reading are facts. Think about that.

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Brunell

10:08 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I for one would not second guess the bystanders or the people who ran the investigation. If the officer felt his gun was in jeopardy, he did what he felt he needed to do to protect himself and his fellow officers.

resident4

10:59 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

Oh I know you're not my sweetheart Eric! Does that word offend you? I was trying not to call names. Who exactly did I call a drug abuser? Marino? The person who is publically known to be a drug abuser? I never once said that he deserved to be shot dead for being a drug abuser or being mentally ill (as much as you want to accuse me of saying that... I haven't... So sorry sweetheart :) he put himself in the situation that he was in that day... Drugs or not... That cost him his life. He put enough fear in others that they were left with no other option. In a life or death situation... Sorry man... I'm going home to my kids. That's not a risk worth taking. I'm mean and I sink my fangs into people to make me feel better about myself? Haha. Believe it or not... I actually have a huge heart and am very caring. But I am also very passionate about the things I believe in. If you take that as mean.. Then I'll drop off a box of tissues. I respect people that give respect back and that can see all sides. It's kinda hard to express feelings online as well... So sometimes you have to come off sounding harsh to get a point out.

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resident4

11:02 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I get my Pom poms out when I agree with someone... I don't like that Marino was killed. It's sad... But it's unfortunate that it came to that. You get your pom poms out with the people you agree with... So why the finger pointing??

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resident4

11:10 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I really hope that you're kidding about Marion's mother being in the mental health field! If you're not... It makes my physically sick to my stomach to hear that she knew him and what he was capable of. She knew his mental state and that he abused drugs... Yet let him live his life like that?! A threat to himself and innocent people around him?? Then she's going to try to reform the police dept and file a civil suit against the cop?!?! You've got to be kidding me!!! She takes no responsibility for not helping him? If the excuse is that she tried to and couldn't... Then she has no right to protest or sue for anything! Horrible. If you think that the cops should be fired for not being able to do their job right, then she needs to be fired from her "profession" as well!! Total BS!!

To answer your other comment... No I wasn't there... But I read witness statements and the cops statements... Who were... Wait for it... There!! So yes... I believe them over other peoples "theories".

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resident4

11:12 pm on Saturday, September 1, 2012

I would be a strong minded if I felt that it was unjustifed. I can't stand people who are only able to see black or white... Who argue with stated fact because they think theyre smarter or could have handled it differently. Learn from other peoples mistakes and move on.

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Eric W

12:07 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Why would I be kidding? And why does Marino's mother bear responsibility of her 26 year old son. Not all mental illness is spawned from family disturbances. In other words, Marino could have had a golden childhood but still be inflicted with a mental illness. I spoke briefly with his mother and she is a nice lady in mourning. If you took a stroll outside your hatred of Michael Marino and visited his facebook page, he had friends that cared about him. What i'm saying is that you need to clear your mind of the dirt that this police officer understood in his split second decision to pull the trigger and realize the flawed interaction that the police could have controlled based on their training.

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Brunell

9:48 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Eric, I am 46 my parents are still alive and giving me advice, parenting, and yes still feel they have a responsibility to make sure I am successful. That is what good citizens do. People do need to be responsible for their family. And if my parents ever reach a point in life when they can't decide for themselves or are mentally incapacitated, I WILL take responsibility for them. I can't believe you think the Police are responsible here! I'm glad you were not my parent.....

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Eric W

11:50 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Brunell, I disagree. There comes a point in your life where you have to stop leaning on your parents and their parenting. Maybe it is because I am a guy and you are a girl but you need to take some responsibility for yourself and especially at 46. And of course, I believe the police are responsible here. There were three of them. There was one of Marino, who was handcuffed. They did not control the situation and it resulted in a death. Fire them!

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Brunell

8:01 am on Monday, September 3, 2012

Eric, I am finished with this..... I am a guy. I don't lean on, or take anything from my parents. And yes, you must stop leaning on your parents which I did around 20 years old. A good parent never stops parenting. How could you miss my point that someone in this guys family should have taken responsibility. How could you miss my point! Good luck Eric, you will need it. See ya.....

resident4

10:34 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012

You only read what you want to read. I never once said that mental illness is spawned from family disturbances. Although... From what I read his was.. From his biological mother dying. His stepmother does bear responsibility if she knows his issues and what he was capable of... Being in the mental health field. If she gave up on it... Fine. If they tried and he refused... Fine. Then he was responsible for his own actions. But for his family to now come around and demand police reform, and to file a lawsuit... Are you kidding?!?! I don't hate Michael Marino. When did I say that again? I love how you put words into my mouth to make your judgemental stupidity sound better. I don't hate anyone. I have looked at his fb page. I can tell that he was loved. That is wonderful... He deserved to be loved. He also deserved help... Which he didnt get enough of obv. Like I said before... He didn't deserve to die... Of course I would have wanted to see a different outcome... But he made his poor decisions that day... And that cost him his life. Accept it eric. I make a decision to get into my car every day to go to work... A decision that could cost me my life. A drunk decides to drive their car home after the bar... Making a decision that could cost them their life or the lives around them. Adults are responsible for their own actions. Families need to take care of their loved ones when they need it. There is no dirt in my mind on the cops split second decision.

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Eric W

9:41 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Resident4 (use your real first name, btw. what are you afraid of?) It's too late. I read you like an open book. I know what you are about and I refuse to follow your mindset. Go on thinking the police are saints (predicted follow up: "i never said the police were saints"), go on thinking Marino deserved what he got: (predicted follow up: "i never once said Marino deserved what he got"). I will stick to my assertion that the police did not do their job correctly and it cost someone their life because of it, and they need to stop working with the public. Let me anticipate your response by saying: no. I did not have to be there. I understand the physics involved in restraining someone especially with three able bodied police officers there and one (now dead) man in handcuffs. My opinion will not change no matter what you say. We agree to disagree and move on. I plan on following this story to its end. Hopefully, the chief does the right thing: fires the incompetent public servants (they don't deserve to be called police officers). Now, as I said, I won't agree with you. You will not agree with me. There is no point in reading your posts anymore. Is there? You are on the bad side. I feel I am on the good side. good bye.

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Kim

2:58 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

While I vehemently disagree with Eric W's opinion on this subject and agree with Brunell and resident04, I do absolutely agree with Eric W that you should agree to disagree and move on. What he says is correct. No matter what anyone says, everyone will stick to their guns and have their own opinion. EricW, even though I disagree with you, I do have to respect you for suggesting to agree to disagree and move on. There is nothing wrong with a heated debate but there comes a point or an impasse where it is fruitless to keep arguing.

resident4

10:44 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012

You need to clean the dirt from your mind that this was his life or Marinos. You tell me what you would do. There are always.. "what ifs"... In every tragic scenario. What if this poor girl with her permit who crashed last week in hilltown that killed her father... What if her dad said that she couldn't drive that day? Then he would prob still be alive. Unfortunately that's not the way life works. Life works on the situations that we chose for the day. Go ahead and pick apart everything that I have said, and say that I am mean and I say things to make myself look better. As adults... Again... We make our own choices... We are responsible for our actions... Even when they end up horribly bad. I'm sure mumbauer feels horrible for the decision that he had to make... But again... He also knows that he has a family to go home to at the end of the day. You may think that there is lack of training in the police dept... Maybe there is... I don't know. It's always good to add new training and to improve things in every job... But for you to say that someone should go to jail for murder or lose their job because of their fear of their life and their decisions in their job because you don't agree with it is ridiculous.

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resident4

10:47 am on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Thank you Brunell. Glad you had your Pom poms out :)

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Joe K

2:13 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Murder is murder.The" fear for his life " because he wasn't sure of his own handcuffing work, is a weak story. Pull your weapon and execute a handcuffed man,and you do not get to take a mulligan, blame the victim and society, and get on with your career and life.Having the D.A. investigate this is about as fair as having the cops mom handle the investigation..Clearly an independent investigation is warranted here. Heckler's report is worthless, he should have recused himself because of this conflict of interest. Put it to rest with an independent investigation and let the chips fall where they may.

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Brynn12

4:15 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Put it to rest with an independent investigation and let the chips fall where they may? You saying this after you just said that he murdered him? You already made up your mind on it... As many others have. Even if a private investigation was done... And it was still deemed justified... You would still be singing the same tune. There was a private investigation in the Sullivan case, and his mother is still saying that the cops planted the gun in her backyard. I wish they would do a private investigation to shut everyone up. This wasn't murder! Follow some philly stories... It'll show you what murder is

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Joe K

8:13 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

I know a bit about it..the evil is something you really do not want to get on you.

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Brynn12

9:17 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

You know a bit about what? Murder?

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Joe K

4:37 pm on Monday, September 3, 2012

Yup...You handcuff the person...and then you blow them away..text book definition

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resident4

2:07 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Joe K... really? Yes... the definition you provided is murder... but when it's justified or when someone else's life is in danger... it's not. Sorry you don't understand.

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Joe K

5:29 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Suppose for a minute,.you are Officer Mumbauer...You got kicked,got angry and shot without considering the consequences..Is this not the exact tale you would tell to stay out of prison for the rest of your life?.It's great to support the police,but to claim they can shoot whenever they perceive danger also gives them the right to shoot first and then perceive the danger. Marino was dead with his hands cuffed behind his back..If this goes unpunished I think I'll join the force because the benefits will be a real money-maker...I am also done with this forum..It makes me ill...over and out

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resident4

12:49 pm on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Joe K... I think if Mumbauer was just pissed that he was kicked... he would have just kicked the sh*t out of Marino instead of killing him. I don't buy the whole "murder". Someone with a family... something to live for... wouldn't murder someone because of a kick to the balls.

Eric W

9:34 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

I agree. An independent investigation is what is needed. The cop created the situation by not securing the subject enough that he felt the subject could have compromised the police officers life. If the chief does not fire the cops (at least one of them), there are going to be problems.

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resident4

10:28 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

This is my last post to you Eric. I would never use my name on a public forum like this!! I don't trust you or other people to know who I am, where my house is... People are crazy. I'm glad that you can read me like an open book... Adding your own handwritten words to my book... Just to make yourself feel better. We will just have to agree to disagree. I will also be following this until the end... When my "saint" returns to work. Have a good night sweetheart. I'll see you on the "bad side". Lmao.

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Eric W

11:56 pm on Sunday, September 2, 2012

Resident4, how would I know where you live by your first name? You have many insecurities and I hope you see a therapist for them. Hiding behind a name under the assumption that someone may do something to you (predicted follow up: "i never said I was afraid of someone doing something to me") must make you one difficult person to get along with. I am almost 100% certain you have many enemies and few close friends. "Good luck with that".

resident4

12:16 am on Monday, September 3, 2012

Ok... I changed my mind... Not my last post to you. You would obv like to keep this going. Why do you need to know my first name? I'm not insecure... Sweetheart... But since you think that I am... Possibly you could be my therapist? I don't have any enemies... Well... You may view me as one. I'm 32 not 16. I have a lot of friends, and a few very close friends... So you're half right. You are a therapist aren't you? You've already stated that you're a mind reader... Superman too?

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Eric W

2:17 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Res4, change your mind but not the topic please. I suppose you still believe a kick to groin from a handcuffed subject is a good reason to execute them. I have summarized your opinion and now you just need to confirm. Correct? I don't want to get too personal on here so we'll leave it at that.

resident4

5:19 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

I changed the topic? Since when? No... not a kick to the groin... but a lunge for a gun... yes... a good reason to protect yourself. But I guess you already knew I was going to write that. Do you realize that you say the same thing to everyone on here that disagrees with you? You take out of their comment only what you can argue on... and dismiss everything else to make your opinion look better? Not too personal? haha... not sure what that's supposed to mean. You're the one asking for my first name.

But anyway. You obv are very stubborn and only your opinion matters. So I hope that you have a good life thinking that way. We will never agree or come to any sort of neutral understanding on this topic. Time to move on.

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Eric W

12:38 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Now, were getting somewhere. Your lunge for a gun excuse would pan out given the officers testimony that he did not feel Marino was fully secured. Why didn't the officer fully secure Marino? Let's see if you can squirm your way out of that one.

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resident4

12:43 pm on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

No squirming here baby. He wasn't able to fully secure Marino because right at that time... HE STARTING FIGHTING!!! That's when he kicked Graff down the terrain, and kicked Mumbauer in the jaw and groin. Possibly that could be why? Wow... thought you were smarter than that Eric W.

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Eric W

2:15 pm on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Then why was Marino still handcuffed as he lay dead? I guess the cop thought Marino was some kind of circus act that could grab a gun with this toes, remove the safety and fire the weapon accurately at the police officer. The cop is obviously not very intelligent to assume such things. In spite of it, I still believe the cop is a liar. He shot because he was mad. That's my opinion and I stand by it. The chief needs to do the right thing and fire this guy. He's not a good cop.

Brunell

10:57 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Mommy, save your energy. Look at the thread. Many of us are just speaking to one or two people that want the government to be responsible for everything. Look above, I stated your sentiment days ago.....

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Eric W

12:41 am on Wednesday, September 5, 2012

Brunell, hate to tell you but everyone I talk to pretty much agrees: shooting an unarmed, handcuffed subject in custody is a brutal execution.

Kim

7:38 am on Friday, September 7, 2012

Mommy- There's an easy solution to your problem. If it's so exhausting, don't read it.

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Eric W

6:14 pm on Friday, September 7, 2012

"Mommy" stop wasting room with your pointless comments. Kim is right, if you think it is exhausting, drink some coffee or something but don't tell the world about it. No one really cares. This is a topic about the Marino case.

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resident4

9:40 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

He was still handcuffed as he lay dead Eric W. because he was... Handcuffed!!! Did you once hear me say that he wasn't handcuffed?! I swear you only read what you want to see. Mumbauer wasn't sure if he threw a cuff... AKA... Wasn't clicked all the way like he stated. He either thought wrong... Everyone is human Eric... Still doesn't mean that he wasn't genuinely in fear of his life and thought he got out of the cuff. Or maybe the cuff wasn't clicked?! You will never know Eric... They didn't say. It really doesn't matter if you believe he is lying or not... You're not the DA, your not the chief and most importantly you're not God. He's not going to fire him... He will be right back in uniform patrolling your neighborhood as soon as Gura's investigation is done. You sound like the circus freak here... Constantly riding around and around with your silly mindset like a clown on a bike... Saying the same thing, doing the same act with every post you reply to that you don't agree with. Circus is over Eric... Your ticket is expired... Move on.

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Eric W

12:00 am on Sunday, September 9, 2012

"he either thought wrong..": obviously, he did think wrong. Again, Marino was not capable of shooting a gun with his feet. I won't move on. The more attention this case gets, the better. The police want to sweep it under a rug. Not gonna happen.

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resident4

11:53 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

There you go again Eric... only quoting what fits your argument. Do you ever think wrong Eric? Obv not.. in your mind.. you're perfect. Only your opinion matters. You're the only voice of reason and truth. Marino lunged at him! Lunged towards his gun! He didn't have a second to double check if he "thought wrong" about the cuff being secured. You seem to think that cops are supposed to know everything. If he didn't hear it click... then either it didn't... or it was muffled that he didn't hear it. Doesn't change the scenario or the fear Mumbauer had. If he had heard it click. I'm sure Marino would be laying there with a bruise instead of a gunshot. No one said Marino tried to grab the gun with his feet. It said he was ON HIS FEET and lunged at him. You don't give this positive attention. You give it your BS theory of what happened or could have happened. Do you think these FB protests where half the people write F the police gives this positive attention? Do you think that the police are dumb? You don't think they read all of this? They know what is going on. What people are saying. That half of the protesters are known to them because of their behaviour in the past? I won't move on either Eric. As many of you protesters fighting against the police and thinking Marino did nothing wrong... there are a doubled amount of people supporting the police and Mumbauers life or death situation.

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Eric W

11:20 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

resident4, so you believe Mumbaur made a mistake. yes or no? Let's see whose perfect here. go ahead. It's real simple: did mumbaur make a mistake. Come on, you can do it...

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resident4

4:34 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Eric W... No I do not believe that Mumbauer made a mistake. He was in a life or death situation in his mind that day. He made the right decision for himself, his family and the community. He was in fear of his life Eric. What about that do you not understand??

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Eric W

6:54 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

It's easy to understand, Resident4. If I am in fear of my life, and I kill you, whose to say I was really in fear of my life? I'll bet you supported the killing of Trayvon Martin, too. Anyway, the cop made a mistake. He was wrong for fearing for his life. Cop isn't dumb, Resident4. Why would you want to make him seem that way? Predicted follow up ... "I NEVER SAID I MADE THEM OUT A CERTAIN WAY"... yawn... you are starting to bore me.

chris blocke

11:46 pm on Saturday, September 8, 2012

all month you people have been arguing about a career criminal who has exhibited violence towards citizens and police. a multiple time offender who is just another undesirable tenant in our condominium of life. i certainly feel safer now that the police have nipped him in the bud. this perp had no regard or respect towards his fellow man let alone authority. we should all thank our police officers for risking their lives for our safety instead treating them like war criminals.

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Eric W

12:07 am on Sunday, September 9, 2012

Good thing you are not cop, blocke. You want to take the easy route and kill people you consider undesirable. Respect for authority... don't make me laugh. It is folks like you that are the reason we have a paternal system of government in this country. How about less government, less laws and more freedoms. Maybe these things wouldn't happen. But, let's not go there. This is about an incompetent police officer who does not deserve to serve the public.

mr grinch

12:11 am on Sunday, September 9, 2012

Lets revisit the facts...
1) Three officers to control the situation.
2) 1 handcuffed man (mental state, past record, altered state or no all irrelevant ).
3) Handcuffed man shot in chest while handcuffed.
4) Murderous act excused by district attorney.
5) All three officers not held accountable while murdered handcuffed man's family and system are blamed for officers actions.
Those are the facts...... and the facts state the man was murdered while restrained.
You wanna feel safe with that kind of protect and serve .....be my guest.

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Eric W

1:42 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

Yep, Mr Grinch. This is exactly why I have been glued to this thread. It is incredibly ignored by the media. I suppose they are holding out for the result of the investigation by the chief. I read a comment somewhere that he said it could be an indefinite amount of time before he completes his investigation. Apparently, Perkasie police are the judge, jury and executioner. Supporters of Mumbauer demand we look the other way but the more we comment, the more interest we show, the more the media will get the word out.

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Russ

9:56 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Your #2 in parenthasis is not fact. These are the facts you choose to believe...also know as opinion. You're entitled to it, but lets not confuse facts with opinions.

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resident4

5:07 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Mr. Grinch... with a name like that I have a feeling that you don't see positive in much of anything.

Let's revisit the facts (or your facts):
1) Three officers to control the situation... yet one walked away to talk to a witness... so that leaves two.
2) 1 handcuffed man (although not assured at the time by the officer that he was fully secured in the handcuffs).
3) Handcuffed man shot in chest while handcuffed (wasn't known that he was fully secured until after he was already shot).
4) Not a murderous act excused by the D.A.- a homicide justified by the D.A. due to the circumstances surrounding the shooting.
5) All three are not held accountable because they were doing their job... to protect and serve. Mumbauer was put in a life or death situation in his mind at the time. Marino's family is partially to blame for not helping (or Marino refusing) their "mentally disabled" son... yet they seem to think they have the right to demand reform and civil lawsuits against Mumbauer and the Perkasie PD. The system is blamed because Marino (mentally disabled) is allowed to roam free, threaten, attack and do whatever he wants (including not taking his prescribed meds) and that's supposed to be ok? He should have been in a hospital or under supervision of his family or friends who knew what he was capable of.

Eric W

6:57 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Resident4, well, why do you believe you can force people to take their medication? Another thing is: how the heck do you even know this man or his family. You talk as if you have his rap sheet directly in front of you. You sure do like to get on people for not accepting the cops juvenile excuse of killing somone (oh, he was so ... very, very, afraid of his life) yet you do not consider your own fallacies, the biggest of which is calling Marino a complete mental case that is capable of annihilating three police officers with his toes.

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resident4

10:31 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Actually Eric... I don't support the killing of Travon Martin... That was murder...and no...it's not comparable to the Marino case. Well... I guess that you would have a pretty good reason for killing someone if you were in fear of your life? If you didn't... Then you would be charged with murder Eric. Haha... He was wrong for fearing for his life? Where was his guardian angel Eric telling him everything was going to be ok? Predicted argument: this cop is incompetent. You like to pose questions and then add your "predicted argument" right after. That... Sweetheart...is getting boring. I bore you because you only read what you want to read, and because I refuse to give into your anti law mentality. You have given no real reason as to why someone should take your opinion seriously.

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resident4

6:38 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

You can't force someone to take their meds unless they are under your supervision or under the supervision of a hosptial. I don't know him or his family. What I know is all of the research I have done. I would never comment or voice my opinion so loudly on something that I didn't do my homework on. I disagree with people posting things that they are claiming to be facts when there is proof theyre not facts. You jump on anyone that disagrees with you... So why are you judging? My faults? I base my opinion of everything on published reports, interviews and public records. Everyone in his family has admitted that he was mentally disabled. He would become violent while on drugs. It took 6 cops and 2 hospital personnel to tie him down last year when he was strung out. He was tased twice and it had no effect on him! Tell me again how it's impossible that he fought off 2 cops and lunged at mumbauers gun?

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Eric W

10:55 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Res4, so are you attempting to show a compassionate side while cheering on the folks who say Michael Marino deserved to die because he was mentally ill and killing him will make people feel safer at night? I dare you to respond negatively to the next poster who cheers at the cops for this killing. You know what? The cops, themselves, would probably side with me on that one. They hate that folks are parading this as a welcome act of killing a drug addict/deranged man. I actually can't wait to hear Mumbauers heartfelt reasons for what he did. I want to believe he did this with all passion of securing his life as you. It's impossible, right now, with his silence (but, I understand the need - he cant speak) - but when idiots on this board cheer like they were spartans, I get a little irritated. You share company with them. Let's see a little more compassion from you because Mumbauer, himself, would not appreciate the blood sport arena being created on this thread against this killing.

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resident4

12:04 pm on Thursday, September 13, 2012

Really Eric W.~ you're going to accuse me of cheering on people who said he deserved to die because of his mental state? Please... show me exactly where I said it was ok to kill him only because of his mental state. Go ahead Eric. Find it. I don't reply to posts that I feel I have nothing to add... and I'm not going to comment on a post that states that. It doesn't deserve recgonition. LIKE I SAID BEFORE... I do not think people should be killed off only because they're mentally ill. You dare me to respond? lol. Truth or dare. Funny. Ignoring ignorant comments sometimes speaks louder. Again... Eric... where do you see me encouraging a "blood sport"? I agree with the justified ruling because I honestly believe what Mumbauer said that happened. I do happen to know one of the officers involved personally, and I completely trust that person. I know they wouldn't lie. Nor have the personality to just forget about what happened. I do not share company with people who act like "spartans". You write things to get what you want out of the conversation... very manipulative and not at all compassionate. For you to attempt to say that you are compassionate is laughable.

resident4

6:42 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Oh... Don't pull your predicted line of "but he was handcuffed". From mumbauers pov it was unknown if he threw a cuff due to not hearing the cuff click.

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mr grinch

7:09 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

The mental sate of the man while handcuffed is irrelevant.
The fact that he was shot while handcuffed is relevant.
2+1=3.....also a fact.
Man was handcuffed before he was shot in the chest.
Murdered while restrained. Murder is an unlawful killing.
Killing a restrained man...is murder.
And thats the facts.

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chris blocke

10:25 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

i feel safer knowing that the police put mr. marino out of our misery. we don't need this drug fueled idiot continually threatening our safety, not to mention a person who assualts police officers. one less undesirable tenant in our condominium of life.

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Russ

10:30 am on Monday, September 17, 2012

Yep, wrong again. Your "facts" are terrible. Unlawful killing is murder, correct. However, since he was cleared of all wrong doing by the district attorney....it wasnt unlawful. See how that works?

monkeySEEmonkeyDO

9:07 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Didn't some guy just commit suicide by blowing his brains out in the back of a police car... while HANDCUFFED?! The cops admitted that they never fully searched the guy before he struck them, and for all they knew, he could of still been armed with a weapon. Point is, just because someone is handcuffed, doesn't mean they shouldn't be considered dangerous...
That being said, even though they were cleared by the DA Office, those cops should be embarassed on how they handled themselves.

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resident4

10:27 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

How is his mental state irrelevant? Because you want it to be? He was on drugs and off his prescribed meds. It's not irrelevant at all. His family knew he was capable of something bad while in that state.

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resident4

10:30 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

I agree with almost everything you say monkey. While I'm sure they do feel embarrassed. Mainly because of the "protesters"... I think they probably feel more guilt. Guilt that it had to end like that. Not guilty Eric w.

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mr grinch

12:22 am on Thursday, September 13, 2012

Its irrelevant because he was restrained, then murdered. Calling it murder is justified because he was restrained.
Had he not been restrained the account by the police would be thin at best.
Hundreds of altered state cases are handled every day without ending life.
Only one case that I know of "required" the end of life while restrained, leaving those still alive scrambling to cover their asses.
You (like the district attorney) are free to your opinion. However when you look at the facts, there is only one conclusion.

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Eric W

9:49 pm on Sunday, September 16, 2012

I'm interested in Mumbauers response to questions: if you could change it, would you have fired on the victim? Or, do you regret shooting your gun and killing this victim? And regarding the other two police officers, why were they not there to assist with the arrest. Since Mumbauer had to shoot, it shows the other two cops were not doing their job properly.

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resident4

2:10 pm on Monday, September 17, 2012

Well... IF Mumbauer is forced to answer questions, or if he decides to on his own. I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't change his mind UNLESS he knew for sure that both handcuffs were fully secured. He was in fear of his life. Why would you ask "do you regret shooting your gun and killing this victim"?... I'm pretty sure that he feels horrible about having to make a decision that ended someone's life... but I also doubt that he regrets doing it... because, again, he was in fear of his life. He did what was right in his mind at that exact moment. To save his own life, the other officers lives, the lives of innocent people that day... and to go home to his family at the end of his shift. Graff was there to assist with the arrest! WTH!?! Did you read the report? He got kicked down the terrain during the arrest. Rothrock was across the street talking to the guy on the motorcycle. I'm sure this whole situation was probably 3 seconds.

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Eric W

11:00 pm on Thursday, September 20, 2012

Resident4, stop speaking for Mumbauer. You already made the guy out to be the biggest flake with the worst sense of danger. Now you hone that stigma with your endless justification for an event you merely read about. Stop acting like you are Mumbauer himself. I am convinced his decision was wrong and that he will, and deserves to, have much guilt over his need to take a life. If he has a conscious, he will quit public service and choose another path in life. He should not be a police officer.

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resident4

9:39 am on Friday, September 21, 2012

Eric W.-- stop pretending that you know what it's like to be in fear of your life.. having to make a split second decision. I'm not speaking for Mumbauer. I'm speaking off of what I KNOW of Mumbauer, of what I KNOW from the other officer (that I KNOW personally) has said. I'm sorry if you can't comprehend that. No one cares if you feel that his decision was wrong. You're just a nerd behind a computer that thinks your sh*t doesn't stink. He's not going to quit Eric. He's already back on duty. Patrolling Perkasie and Sellersville. Please... don't call the police when you're in a life or death situation. They may turn the other cheek and tell you that you are uncapable of making that decision. Oh wait... no... they will have to come help your pathetic self. That's what they signed up to do. To protect the town and it's residents... even the ones like you.

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Eric W

2:46 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Resident4, you have dissolved into name calling temper tantrums. It's too bad you are friends with one of the cops because you are an awful advocate of justice with your childish insults. I would be embarrassed calling you a friend of the police. No wonder you disguise your first name. Do you realize you are not doing them any favors continually justifying this homicide? I realize you only care about your need to play police officers advocate (it does something for you, evidently) - but you need to grow up, realize people are naturally inclined to believe a handcuffed man shot and killed by police is a travesty. You also need to grow up because no one really cares who you know, where you been or what you know. If you want to be famous, do some good for mankind. This is not the way.

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resident4

3:26 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Really Eric? I'm an awful advocate for justice? LMAO. Last time I read this report... it was a JUSTIFIED homicide. You do know what that means right? I'm sorry if it bothers you so much that I believe their side of the story over yours. Obv you were there. Or do you talk to the dead and Marino told you himself? I'm not doing favors for anyone Eric. I am voicing my opinion on a public forum. Do you think that your anti-law rants, and your inability to look at situations besides the ones you created in your head, make you an awful advocate for Marino's family (like you're trying to pretend that you are). Sticking up for what is right does do something for me Eric. While it may be a travesty for some people hearing that a handcuffed man was shot by police. It's also a travesty for people who have to listen to the "know it all, I can do better" attitudes against people who put their lives on the line for everyone. You know... the "saints". I know you can't put yourself in Mumbauer's shoes for even a second... for fear that you may have chose to do the same thing he did. (It wouldn't fit into your storybook then). I'm sorry if it bothers you so much that I know one of the officers. It bothers you because it's something that I have one up on you. Words from someones mouth... not words from Patch. I have no need or want to be famous... but thanks for making me feel that way by mentioning my name so much. It's quite flattering.

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resident4

3:28 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Why do you keep asking for my name? Why does a screen name bother you so much? Is it because you think you can figure out who I am? I don't need harassment by you offline. Thanks. Perkasie is a small town, remember? Tell me oh holy one... what do YOU do for mankind? (crickets). Have a great weekend Eric!!!!! <3

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Eric W

8:43 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Resident4, your problem is clear: low tolerance for people questioning the actions of police officers. I reject your religious worship of police officers. If I am paying them to police, they are going to do it correctly. They will find some flaws in their procedures and it will be interesting to see how you disagree with them over changes. You will disagree wont you? Because you stand (steadfast) with what Mumbauer did that you should object any procedural correction. However, your integrity sucks, Resident4. You are a follower and are offended when someone does not follow as you do. You will, instead, lie about your commitments, backtracking and denying ("i never said that" .. seems to be your middle name). So, do me a favor, come back several months from now and impress me by admitting you were wrong when Perkasie Police change their procedures (and HOPEFULLY getting rid of Mumbauer). Or, will you protest? As I said, you are a study in contradictions due to your lack of integrity. Something tells me you and Mumbauer have alot in common in that regard. Hopefully, you do not serve the public. Oh, I am formerly from the city of brotherly love. Philadelphia is a good place. Predicted follow up: "it's a ghetto" ... but dont forget, you have to live in the city of Philadelphia to be a police officer. So watch what you say, your integrity is showing.

mr grinch

11:20 pm on Thursday, September 20, 2012

yeah...did you read the report?
why was an unsecured drug crazed crazy secured enough for one officer to attend to a calm witness and two others get kicked in the nuts and knocked down a slope???
oh yeah thats right..
they feared for there lives.
and then they killed him...
and then they realized they were bested by a handcuffed man.
all makes sense now..totally lawful.
thanks for leading the sheep....

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Russ

9:21 am on Friday, September 21, 2012

I said it in an earlier post and I'll say it again. Act like and animal and you get treated like an animal. No sympathy for this guy.

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resident4

9:47 am on Friday, September 21, 2012

Did YOU read the report? He wasn't secured when the other officer walked away. He had calmed him down. Walked away to talk to the witness. Mumbauer was cuffing him and Graff was patting him down... that's when he became violent!? Why does this need to be repeated?? I would love to see how you would handle the situation Mr. Grinch. You get kicked in the jaw and in the balls. The drug crazed crazy lunges at you. You don't know if he was fully secured. He rocks towards your gun. The gun that you swore to protect with. What would you do? Being dazed after being kicked like that... then him lunging at you. Give him a hug? Run away? Hand him your gun?

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Eric W

2:51 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Mr Grinch, resident4 excuses the lack of control they had while at the same time denying the accusation that they did not have control of situation. It's fun catching them on this confusion and reading their 100+ word count explanation of why they flip-flop. The cops lost control of the situation and they reacted irrationally because of it.

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resident4

3:33 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Alas Mr. Grinch... EricW can be your cindy lou who. He will make your heart grow so that you can change your grinchy ways. He loves being the wingman on other peoples comments. He needs those to fit his "fairytales". He'll only take out what suits his story though. But... since you think this was murder... he'll be right there buttering you up.

mr grinch

2:32 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Nope..sorry. Graff clearly states the subject was cuffed when he started his pat down.Not while Mumbauer was in the process of cuffing him....after.
The two officers reports of the incident conflict......HUMMMMM........

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resident4

3:10 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Hummmmm.... or bad reporting? Try again. I read the real report... not the online report. He had one cuff on... Mumbauer was in the process of putting the other cuff on when Marino started fighting. The one he didn't hear click.

Don Talenti

3:44 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

So many folks willing to place blame. On the system, the doctors, the family, the police, even the mentally ill man. It's a symptom of our society that we've been trained, by lawyers and TV, that someone's always at fault and has to pay. How sad. In this thing called life, things happen. Unpredictably, quickly, and not always the way anyone would like them to turn out. In retrospect, we might wish things were done differently, but does not mean anyone was remiss.

I speak from experience, having dealt with violent mentally ill folks. It is not always possible to involuntarily commit them. There aren't the facilities left for long term care, and that's not always the ideal therapeutic situation. Doctors and mental health professionals do not have a crystal ball that let's you know when someone is going to go off. It doesn't work like that. The family, who knows the person the best, is often distraught at the lack of control they have over the person's behavior, and in getting them help if the person does not want it.

As for second guessing that 3 cops should have been able to control one handcuffed man in a psychotic rage, I've been in situations where it took 3 times that number, and hospital staff in addition, and injectable medications to gain control of one individual. Add in the speed at which this took place, and the terrain, and it's difficult to confidently say there was any error, despite the tragic outcome. It happened. It doesn't mean anyone was negligent.

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resident4

4:20 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Don... your post is very professionally and logically written. Thank you for sharing your experiences in dealing with the mentally ill. How strong they can become when in a drug induced fit. I've posted earlier about the incident with Marino last year... where it took 6 cops and 2 hospital personnel to hold him down to sedate him. "People" want to discredit that incident.

You're right in saying that we shouldn't always place blame. Assuming that there is always fault. But there is fault in filing lawsuits and suing for something that you either turned the other cheek to, or that you couldn't help. If the family feels that they deserve something out of all of this... that is wrong. They weren't there to help him... if he refused help... then he made his own decisions and choices. They deserve nothing monetary wise. They do not deserve to accuse the cops of murder or failing at their jobs. If they want to make something positive out of all of this. Instead of focusing on all of the negative... maybe they should focus on making something positive out of his death. Counseling... Giving people chances so that the same thing doesn't happen to them or their family members. Learn from it. Not looking for a payout or police reform. Perkasie and Sellersville are safe towns. Probably because the police don't deal with BS and let things slide (not talking about Marino Eric). They're coming in and tarnishing. Looking to blame everyone but themselves.

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Eric W

8:46 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Tazers, Batons, Pepper Spray. There are many objects the police have at their disposal. A bullet for the mentally ill is quite a choice, Don.

mr grinch

9:06 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Online report is quite real.
"Once cuffed, Marino became momentarily calmer"
Then Rothrock left..
Then Graff began the search...
All three were confident the subject was restrained.
Through out Mumbauer's own description not one word....NOT ONE WORD of his account of the scuffle reflects that Marino had use of his arms. In fact if you read the report everything he describes is a man RESISTING WITHOUT THE USE OF HIS ARMS, accurate because HE DIDNT. He didn't because they were handcuffed and both officers we confident of that FACT as reflected by their own account in the report.
Thats their story and I'm sticking to it.

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resident4

9:51 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Oh Eric. You and your big boy words. Do you feel smarter now by writing the word integrity more than once? I do not have a "religious view" of police officers. (I was using your own words). I do, However, have respect for law enforcement. I do have respect for men and women (cops or not) who protect. Who put their lives on the line. You obv don't have any respect for others. You think that because they're public workers... Paid for by our tax money... They should bow down and do whatever you say. Do you also have such negative reviews of teachers? Firefighters? What I have a low tolerance of Eric... Is people who have their head stuck so far down in the sand (or up their own rears... However you like it)... That they are unable to hear anything but themselves. Sound familiar? We will see if I disagree with any procedure changes IF they choose to make any. I don't plan my opinion of things before they happen. I don't follow Eric. You have that backwards. Please... Show me exactly (in my words... Go ahead copy and paste) where I have lied or backtracked and denied. I'm waiting. What does you having lived in Philadelphia have to do with anything? Here's a shocker for you... I dont think all of philly is ghetto. Except for... The ghetto parts.

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Eric W

10:33 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

oh, i'm sorry. Is integrity a big word for you?

resident4

9:54 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Yes Ive been in the ghetto of Philly... Gotten lost and ended up there, visited my sister there who attends temple. Have I been scared? At times. Did I feel safer Seeing cops... Hell ya... Because I know that they will do what it takes to protect. Not because they are from philly, but because they have sworn to protect.

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resident4

10:07 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

My integrity... Your word of the day. Why would I care if Philadelphia cops have to reside in philadelphia? What does that have to do with anything?? Oh... It doesn't have anything to do with the perkasie pd. you just think its cool saying that you lived in Philly. Am I supposed to now view you as culturally aware, tough...? You now live in perkasie or sellersville sweetheart. Watch out!!!! These corrupt bucks county cops are out to get everyone! Better move back to the city!!!!

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resident4

10:12 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Mr grinch. I suggest you read it again... Maybe 3rd time is a charm? Here are some key words: didn't. Hear. Cuff. Click. Suspect. Lunged. Could. Have. Thrown. Cuff. Read the real report... Not the online. Rothrock left before he was being cuffed. READ THE REPORT . The real one. Thanks. That's the real deal and I'm sticking to it. Yours is sliding off the wall like a wet sticker. No adhesive left...

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Eric W

10:32 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Resident4, so this all comes down to bad police work. Thank you for confirming that. He did not hear the cuff click.Why? How did the suspect lunge? And finally, when anyone lunges at you with their hands behind their back, is it justifiable to take their life if you are packing heat?

resident4

10:40 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Round and round in circles with you Eric. I am not explaining it again so that your peanut brain can comprehend it. I feel like a broken record with you. Here's your already predicted statement from me: I didn't confirm bad police work. It has been fully confirmed that you are a true gem though.

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Eric W

1:56 am on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Resident4, are these the same circles that were said to surround the wrists of Michael Marino before Seth Mumbauer took his life? The more attention this story gets the better. Thanks for being a tool.

resident4

10:41 pm on Friday, September 21, 2012

Yes... Integrity is a big word for me... Your right. Considering you don't know the meaning... I think it may be too big of a word for you. You stole it from someone else's comment I'm sire

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Eve

9:03 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

It's "you're right" not "your right". As a "know it all", I thought you'd want to know. Your welcome!

mr grinch

7:24 am on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Taking your advise I once again read the report hoping to be wrong. Crazy....but after reading it in some detail......the conclusions are the same.Not My conclusions...the reports.
I prefer the key words I quoted, the conflicting statements and the chronological order of the report itself; to your so called key words.
When you read it, is Marino found to be handcuffed before he was shot?

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resident4

9:04 am on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Eric. Wow... That was creative. This story isn't getting more attention. You and I are debating it in a comment section on patch. Big deal. The last report published... Stated... Perkasie is not going to be hiring a private investigator. Mumbauer is back on duty. It is ruled justified... Not criminal. Gura is still conducting his investigation on whether or not some policies need to be changed. You're just going to exhaust yourself with an endless fight that is going to go nowhere. Now... Impress me in a couple months... And tell me that I was right... Tell me that mumbauer is still employed by the perkasie pd, that there were minor changes in the way the dept is run, still no private investigation done, no trial. Possibly Marinos family will get a payout from insurance co and they will go away. I have no respect for people who bear no responsibility for their family, but then turn around and demand things and $ when something tragic happens. I feel for their pain in the loss of Marino... Hope they can find peace. But they don't deserve anything from the police dept or the town... They won't get it either. You watch Eric. Tool? Hmmm... Sassy.

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resident4

6:35 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Mr Grinch... Are you reading the actual report? The one that is on the public records search, or one on a news site? In the actual report.... Of course it states that he is handcuffed. But... Like I stated before... It also states that he started fighting while in the process of being cuffed. Therefore... Mumbauers uncertainty of whether he threw a cuff is valid.

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resident4

6:40 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Their stories don't conflict. Marino had one handcuff on... Locked. He started fighting and kicked graff down the terrain. Remember... Mumbauer didn't recall the other cuff clicking. Graff wouldn't have heard a click or not... He wasnt doing the cuffing.

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mr grinch

7:31 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Actual report? ...yes..any and all in depth.
Stories in actual report?....totally conflict.
Graff not doing the cuffing? ....No he was just holding Marino's head and left arm.
Thanks for confirmation on the dead man being handcuffed.
And not to taint whatever cool aid your drinking, but several national organizations are very aware of the situation and ruling and getting the word out about this brutality.
Personally I would love to see and independent non biased investigation. Just hope I dont have to wait as long as i did for Hecklers.

resident4

8:12 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Graff wasnt placing the cuffs on his wrists... Does that help you to understand what I said? If there are several national organizations listening... Where are they? This happened in June. DA's report was done in July. We are close to Oct. What are they waiting for? I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess that you think the Sean Sullivan case was unjustifed too?

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Eric W

9:07 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Resident4, it does not matter what you said. Why do you continue to portray yourself as this beacon of justice. You are one of the most uninformed people I have ever debated with. The fact is the report was not written by you nor did it pass through your logic to arrive at the DA's conclusion. You are clearly one sided on this whole issue and you serve no other purpose than to illuminate this story. But your worth in this will soon be over as there is interest in this story. You may assume something that happened less than a year ago will go away. But, keep thinking it. You do not matter.

resident4

9:49 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Hmm... I thought I was addressing Mr Grinch. Apparantly not. Really... The most uninformed person you have debated with ever? One could say the exact same for you. One sided?! Hahahahaha. Right. We will see how far this "interest" goes Eric. Aw. Quit hurting my feelings by telling me I don't matter. You keep saying that... Is this something you hear often? Misery loves company Eric. I matter to you... You comment on 99% of what I post. Now that is what matters sweetheart.

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Eric W

6:50 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

resident4, you missed my point about you being a tool. Don't flatter yourself thinking you are anything more. If it helps you sleep at night, I don't know a thing about you nor do I ever want to meet someone like you. But you are company here purely for the thread bump. I wonder how raw Mumbauers behind is from the constant contact with your lips.

american hero

8:47 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

double amputee in wheelchair shot by Houston Police."He feared for his life" and "wanted to go home to his family". A familiar line of b.s.

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resident4

9:25 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Eve... Obv it was a mistake. Just like "you're welcome" not "your welcome". Lmfao... Good one dumbas*. Doesn't do much to to prove your intelligence when you do the exact thing you're critizing. Just saying. Also... I know you didn't write it that way on purpose. So save that line. You fail as grammar police. Go away.

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Eve

12:20 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Excellent! Just seeing if you're paying attention. And I was sure you couldn't comment without insulting me. My husband owes me a dollar. Thanks!

resident4

2:07 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Cool... Are you the lucky lady that's married to Eric? Why wouldn't I comment to you?? I love commenting to everyone quite obviously. Yep... A big mouth with a lot of opinions. Hoping I answered your questions. You're welcome.

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resident4

8:58 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Eric W... The feeling is mutual. As for Mumbauers behind... I'm sure it's fine... I wear lipgloss. I'll see you in a future thread on this topic... Oh wait... Prob not. I won't comment when nothing changes but a few minor things with the PD procedures. :) good night

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