The need to "gerrymander" voting districts is the result of U.S. Census every 10 years. The process is used by BOTH parties, depending on who's in power when the census results hit, to maximize their advantages. It's certainly not a method exclusively used by Republicans.

By the way, the most recent PA legislative district redraw was approved 4-1 by a BIPARTISAN committee (3 Republicans, 2 Democrats).

Hey Mike, this guy, Jeff (Lugar) is a nut case. He's tuned his TV to MSNBC and has torn off the knob. He's probably now basking in his Bed lined with Chris Mathews sheet, pillow cases and posters of Chris all over his house. His MO is to belch out their propaganda loudly, as interacting with intelligent individuals, like yourself, could get him kicked off of the Republican Haters Club.

Gerrymandering is not mandated but redistricting is. Gerrymandering is creating the political lines to keep specific reps in business, not about the will of the people.

If you are a registered voter and do not have a photo ID you are entitled to get one FREE OF CHARGE at a PennDOT Drivers License center. You can find more information at www.VotesPA.com or call 1-877-VotesPA

Bendan, requiring people to travel to PennDOT centers discriminates against people who don't drive or who live in sections of the state where these centers are not near public transportation routes.

Katie, the only information at the VotesPA site on obtaining a free ID is a news release from Secretary Aichele that you can download. However, buried near the bottom of the page is a link that takes you to PennDOT's site, which has no information on a free ID except the same press release. You'll also find a link for download the voter ID application, which still indicates (incorrectly) that a $13.50 fee is required. Now, if you go back to Secretary Aichele's press release you'll find that the free ID won't be available for two more weeks. Even then, people must still travel to the PennDOT centers if they can get there and have the time to wait in line (two hours or more in some cases). Meanwhile, there are less than 90 days left to the election. All signs of how much Pennsylvania's Republican legislators and administration care about our right to vote.

application for a voter ID that you'll find on Pestill indicates a $13.50 fee is required

This web page is apparently experiencing problems. Normally, it allows you to delete your comment while it's under review, which is great if you want to correct an error. However, in my case, I inadvertently clicked Submit before finishing, and now Delete is not working. Hence the following, somwhat redundant post:

Brendan, requiring people to travel to PennDOT centers discriminates against those who don't drive or live where the centers are far from public transportation. PennDOT's website indicates there's a center 2-3 miles from where I live, but that would be a wild goose chase since it's an insurance company where you can renew your license or registration. I agree about the fees, but they've been waived.

Katie, the only information at the VotesPA site on obtaining a free ID is buried in a news release from Secretary Aichele that you can download. However, near the bottom of the Voter ID page at VotesPA is a link that takes you to PennDOT's site, which mentions a free ID but says nothing more, beyond providing the same press release. If you fish around, you'll find a link for downloading the voter ID application, which still indicates (incorrectly) that a $13.50 fee is required. Meanwhile, there are less than 90 days left to the election free ID's won't even be available until the end of the month. All signs of how much Pennsylvania's Republican legislators and administration care about our right to vote.

I was trying to follow along with Brendan, who wants everything given to him, except a hair transplant. And Katie, who was nice enough to provide assistance and even a link. But, I guess Brendan and John want to be spoon fed too, like most Liberals. But, I am really sorry if I am not getting it. Isn't your right to VOTE a privilege? If people are that dumb that they can't deal with the laws or do their own research on what is needed to cast a vote.... Oh, I don't know... Maybe they should just stay home! What do these people do, watch TV in the kitchen because they may get lost coming from another room in the house?

The law was passed in March and as of July less than 2800 people in the entire state had obtained the required ID. That sure sounds to me like lack of effort, as opposed to barriers and burdens, especially given the wide publicity the issue has gotten since the law was passed.

You are correct Mike. I came to this country legally and had to bust my... well, you know what to get an education, a car, a place to live, and start my own business. And, as it has been factually reported, hundreds of times, that pouring billions of funds into "poor neighborhoods" has only resulted in raising the levels of poverty. What does the Bible say, 'give a man fish and he will starve... teach a man to fish and he will survive'? But let's face it, there are some out there that will never leave Uncle Sugar's pantry, no matter what other's do to help them.

Yes you could always get a free photo ID from Pennsylvania and any other state in this country. The over 16yr old children who do not drive have been using them for legal ID forever. There are so many photo ID centers through out each state I cant imagine it would be impossible to get to one the same way you can get yourself out to a polling place. I believe your state representative will help, local church or community, senior citizen transit, friends etc.... The amount of time given to obtain an ID has been substantial. John Herald..what are you afraid of?.

jim shu..you are the one that's DUMB. "the right to vote is a privilege"? do you realize how stupid that sounds? ..maybe you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Morgan, The only thing I remember is a circulator of petitions for our congressman being caught forging signatures. Went to trial, found guilty. Don't remember any voter fraud charges in Pa.

There is a good article from National Review for you to read about voter fraud in PA. http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/314273/voter-fraud-keystone-state-john-fund

Hey Adrian, that was a nice thing that you wrote. So, why not go a littler farther and rent a bus or van, head to these "poor" folks homes and drive them to get what is required by law? Or, maybe you are like other bleeding heart liberals and only invoke guilt? Where are these folks neighbors? How do they get food, or make it to work? Uncle Sugar pours billions of dollars into helping the "poor" and poverty levels are still on the rise. Why is that? Ever been to Zern's? That place is packed with people in wheel chairs, using walkers, and looking like they crawled out of a cave. Yet they were able to make it there and they have bags of goodies that they bought. Can you explain how these "poor" folks are able to only do some things, but we as a conscientious society HAVE to help them when it comes to situations like VOTING?????

Hey Jim, I have been going to senior centers and helping people with their ID, both Dems and Reps, black and white. How do you know that those are the people without ID?

My point, Jeff was that gerrymandering isn't a tactic dreamed up by Republicans to rig elections. The Democrats use it just as effectively.

Insofar as the number of people who have received IDs, 2800 is laughable considering the number of alleged ID-less voters the media keeps pounding on. 750,000!! 1,000,000!! Yet ONLY 2800 have been successful at getting them!?! The odds that all the rest have been blocked or overly burdened by the law's very basic requirement is simply beyond belief.

Sorry, Jeff, that points more to lack of effort than it does insurmountable burdens.

All good points Dave, but I would like to add one more, expense The circus the administration has put on trying to run this thing is just comical. When was the last time anyone really tried to defended this mess. Republicans own this. When it costs more to run- they own it. When legitimate voters are denied access, they own it. When elections are contested Republicsnbecause of alledged voter suppression- they own it. When lines are long at the polls and voters are confused- they own it. This is a 100% Republican idea. It really makes me sick to realize that there are people out there that have absolutely no regard for others rights. And they call themselves patriots--hardly.

David, we can ad to that expense. A letter in July to voters on the no match list - a list of registered voters who had no corresponding ID on record at PennDOT. That letter did not mention anything about the no match list or them being on it. (750,000) letters. Production of an offensive ad that suggests if you do not have ID to vote you are unpatriotic. Ironically many veterans' photo id cards do not have expiration dates on them so they are not valid for voting. And the best the PA dept of state will be sending postcards to every registered voter in the state to tell them about voter ID. That's almost 8.3 million postcards. $$$$$

Most of the student, military, and govt IDs do not have expiration dates making them invalid as voting I'd.

Not true, Adrian for military IDs. They are controlled by a CAC card system that has been in place for years. They do indeed have expiration dates.

The problem with John J. Herald's comments is that they are all fictional. There are no examples of voter fraud in Pennsylvania. The attorney general's office has stipulated that.

The only fraud ever prosecuted in Pennsylvania has been on the part of politicians and election officials, that is to say, the government.

All of these points by John J. Herald, who presents a false I.D. while pushing for I.D, are useless, incorrect and ignorant.

Mohandus, I sincerely believe you misunderstand me. I purposely left out the lack of in-person voter ID fraud, because a law does not have to be necessary to pass constitutional muster. I also didn't address the obvious political motive behind the law because that in itself is not unconstitutional. I believe the most valid issue is creating a law that interferes with the rights of a million or more people. As I see it, IDs are not evil in and of themselves. The system erected around this one is evil because it wantonly disregards the rights of 10% or more of Pennsylvania's registered voters. And the grounds to support my view can be found in the state constitution, which it so happens is at the heart of the lawsuit now being decided.

I hope Mr Frank is incorrect with his assessment, but it's not difficult to miss the irony: rigorous ID process needed to vote but not to buy guns. Have we totally lost our collective wisdom?

Thanks for showing what kind of racist pigs are behind this new aged poll tax.

Did you really type and mean you have fear of black people descending on to your house? I hope not, but if you did, there is no need to ever reply to one of my comments.

"Richard Hurtz:9:07 am on Wednesday, August 8, 2012 "Thanks for showing what kind of racist pigs are behind this new aged poll tax."

Where's that "positive attytood" now, Dickie Hurtz?

...

The comment of Anthony Wayne is the only one on this page that goes right to the heart of this situation. The politicians and their cronies who run our government have made it virtually impossible for a third party candidate to get on the ballot. If we continue to have only the choices that they deem acceptable then our country is doomed. To the cracker that is worried about the New Black Panther Party I wish him nothing but nightmares and more baseless paranoia.

What the GOP is doing to the libertarians is a crime, the same one the Dems did to Ralph Nader. There is no equality under the law in PA when the standards are way higher for a third party candidate to get on the ballot then for a Rep or Dem

Actually, Deb, the law IS NOT unconstitutional, as was decided by the US Supreme Court in 2008 (Indiana's similar law). In fact the 6-3 majority opinion (stronger even than the ACA decision!) specifically stated that the photo ID requirement was not an unreasonable burden or obstacle to voting.

It's a shame the same people who lauded the ACA USSC decision as "the final word" can't accept the stronger opinion on voter ID laws. Instead they run to the State courts, shopping for a more agreeable verdict!

It should be unconstitutional because of the PA constitution.

Earnest, you're right. Even sending in an absentee ballot costs the elderly and the poor with medical and mental health diagnoses because the form requires signatures/documentation of an illness from the MDs--and most doctors require patients to pay for "additional paperwork" (as posted in most doctors' offices). I'm sure many will scoff and say it is a small sacrifice to pay for the privilege, but then again, paying to vote amounts to a poll tax. And besides, for many, $12 or $15 means the difference between eating or paying for medications--not everyone is as fortunate as many of those deriding the poor, the sick and the elderly.

To vote in PA, your signature has to match the signature in the book. If it does not the inspector asks for ID. If the above didn't happen, it is a problem with the officials of the election. This law is unnecessary. You are talking about false registrations which this law does not address and which I would not be against fixing.

Adrian: what if the signature's a pretty good facsimile - a forgery? Most voting "officials" are just retured volunteers... not expert handwriting analyzers. please rethink your assertion.

The signatures in the book are upside down from the voters stand point and the voting official is supposed to cover it before the voter signs. I don't cover for people I know, but do for people I don't I cover the signature so that person would have to be clairvoyant as to what the signature looks like and also they have to be the same age as the voter in question because birth dates are in the book. If there is any question as to identity we ask for id. I am a majority inspector of election and know how this works. I also happened to have studied handwriting analysis when I was a kid.

The judge of elections, majority and minority inspectors are elected positions. We take an oath that there will be a fair and free election.

Now there's a Ryan with some common sense!

A Positively Outstanding (civil) Servant? How beary kind of you!

but the law doesn't address your scenario. I checked the election results and there was no phila polling location that had more votes cast than registered voters. If there was, it was the poll officials who did not do their job and since each polling place has a judge of elections, majority and minority inspectors, who must be from different parties, it would mean they were all complicit in the fraud. Do you know any republican who would let that happen???

Did they check id's before conducting this poll, cause if they didn't I don't believe it.

If all photo id's were usable that would be one thing. The limited types of ID's that can be allowed by PA's law, is part of the problem. I think ID should be required before registering to vote, but not at the polls. Please read my new post on the home page.

Again fiction. Just because it's on the internet does not make it true.

74% of likely Republican voters support voter I.D.

That's such a ridiculous straw man argument. The reason why dems are screaming so loudly has nothing to do with human rights - it has to do with the "vote early, vote often" tactics they have used for years - doesn't Philly routinely have >100% turnouts for big elections? You need an ID to receive any benefit from the state, not just to drive a car. You also need an ID to board a plane, open a bank account, etc. PA isn't even making people buy the ID card, they're giving it out for free. From the huge increase in people receiving benefits over the past several years (i.e., an "entitlement..." not a privilege), something tells me that a lack of ID is keeping people from applying for them, so it shouldn't be an issue to require ID in order to maintain the 'one person one vote' integrity.

Concerned Citizen, what exactly is your point then and what is the issue? You say voting is a right, which of course it is, thus one shouldn't have to show ID to participate in an election? By your same logic, should we just trust people claiming to be U.S. citizens at their word at immigration/customs checkpoints without asking for passports before letting them into the country? U.S. citizens have a right to enter and leave their country at will - so is it infringing on their rights to ask for ID?

I'm sure you'll say this is partisan (even though I regard this as a non-partisan issue) and dismiss it as the highly partisan Inquirer and Newsworks have already done, but here's one set of data that suggests widespread voter fraud in Philly: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27249508/Voting%20Irregularities%20Report.pdf. There are others out there if you simply google 'philly voter fraud' dating back decades. Also, anecdotally, if there wasn't some sort of voter fraud perpetrated over the past couple generations, why has Philadelphia been a one-party town since the 1950s?

Chestnut Hiller - Exactly! You finally see the point! The current voting system is fine until demonstrated that there is a problem! Theories, beliefs, and anecdotal stories do not constitute a rationale for changing a system that has worked for decades, and by all documented accounts seems to still be working - at least as well or better than other systems - as you point out - that already do require photo ID (there is always someone who finds a way to get around nearly any system, photo IDs included). If there is a problem with voter fraud in PA, and a photo ID approach is determined to be the best solution, then I'm all for it. However, the process to determine that there is indeed a problem and that a photo ID is the best solution, has absolutely NOT occurred. You're right, it is NOT technically a partisan issue, as it affects everyone. However, the Republican party in PA has used this fabricated issue as a partisan tool because they perceive it gives them an advantage in the upcoming election. I would write the same comments if the Democrats were behind this - this effort is not for the greater good of the citizens of PA - it only serves the near-term interests of politicians. Be careful of who you support and what ideas you support - they will come back to bite you and everyone else, if done for the wrong reasons.

Dear Chestnut,
It does appear you are describing gerrymandering which is not solved with an ID.
You miss the point in all the examples you give of where one needs to have an ID to cross the border, get on a plane, open a bank account, whatever, whatever. In all your examples, there is no other system in place to determine you are who you say you are. Not true with voting. So, what I hear you saying is that the voter verification system that has been in place for many, many years is rife with corruption and has affected the outcome of many elections? Ever heard of a fake ID? If what you say is true about the corruption causing such high voter fraud, then these people will surely get around a simple photo ID system too. Why not go for fingerprints and DNA testing?

Concerned Citizen, okay, concede to you on the gerrymandering point (and yes, I know what it is, thank you) but that was just an anecdotal throw in at the end of my comment. My initial point remains that I think it is perfectly logical to require id to vote because I do believe there is fraud in the system. You feel otherwise, and there are studies on both sides of the argument that have been conducted and make differing conclusions. You can surely make rhetorical counterpoints to my assertions all day long saying that there is no fraud, can cite your own studies counter to what i cited, but clearly not everyone agrees with you that there is no fraud - otherwise, there wouldn't be a push for this right now because everyone would agree there is no problem. clearly that's not the case. further, you mention that fake ids as an issue...well isn't that the case with everything else that requires an ID? the point is to put one more barrier in place between lawful behavior and unlawful behavior - there is no magic cure, but the logic here is no different than any other institution that requires id. so i guess i'm just not exactly seeing your argument - That voter id not needed because the current system is fine? or because of some other factor?

Chestnut Hiller - The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania conceded in its own court filing that they have no evidence that there has been, ever was or ever will be in person voter fraud in PA:

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/ApplewhiteStipulation.pdf

What we should be talking about in a Democracy is what course of action serves the greater good? What is clear from the evidence presented at trial is that, on the one hand, implementation of this law has the potential to disenfranchise 750,000 - 1 million PA voters. On the other side, the Attorney General can't present a shred of evidence to suggest that implementation of this law will prevent even a single fraudulent vote, because they have no evidence that a single fraudulent vote has ever been cast.

So, to review: the Republican-controlled legislature is spending in excess of $10 million taxpayer dollars on a voter ID bill to prevent a type of voter fraud they can't document has ever occurred in PA, at the risk of disenfranchising up to a million PA voters.

Why would they do such a thing? Oh, right -- "to allow Governeor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania." -Mike Turzai, PA House Republican Leader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

Agreed. John J. Pino recently posted on the Tredyffrin-Eastown Patch.

http://te.patch.com/blog_posts/the-voter-id-law-was-upheld-good-news-for-pennsylvanians

Check out the John's slip in the last sentence. It would seem that John J. Pino knows exactly what this Voter ID Law is all about because it was on this mind when he wrote this.

"Ok, I am going to say the following as politely as I can.
Today's ruling by a Pennsylvania Judge to uphold the state voter ID law is a
victory not only for the state of Pennsylvania but also for every American
citizen who is interested in justice and unfairness for all people."

- John J. Pino

@Joe: I think PA House Representative Mike Turzai's comments say it all about what the end game of this law is really about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

In case you thought is was taken out of context. Here is another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

The small number or disenfranchised rural elderly does not matter to the larger numbers of disenfranchised urban elderly. The census does not have exact numbers on the elderly, but minorities are documented.

http://pasdc.hbg.psu.edu/Data/Census2010/tabid/1489/Default.aspx

This was absentee ballot fraud, not in person fraud. The law does not address absentee balloting.

Adrian- let's address the easy problem first, with photo IDs. Then, as you point out, we can turn our attention to absentee ballot fraud.

One thing at a time, lest our public officials keel over from the workload....

The point is this law does nothing to prevent voter fraud. All it does is inconvience everyone, people without id and anyone who votes. Wait for the lines at the polls. Please be patient and don't take it out on your barely paid poll worker. We can face a $10,000 fine and a year in prison if we don't check ID properly.

Feel free to head over here anytime then, MrBlue:
http://horsham.patch.com/blog_posts/disenfranchised-by-politics-or-apathy-47d1849f

They should be at least able to get the dept of state. Voter ID. You do not need a birth certificate for that, only social security number and a utility bill or two.

What?
http://esl.fis.edu/learners/advice/syntax.htm

Hi Adrian, I would just like to thank you for your efforts to right this wrong, it is people like you who give me hope that perhaps a disaster may be avoided.
For some reason my iPhone will not let me fill out your petition. When I am at a pc later I will fill out and submit.